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Dorman
1996 Saturn SC2 Engine Oil Pan 4 Cyl 1.9L Dorman

P311-140AE88    264-131  New

21008469 , 21015428 , 103225 , GMP21A , 501109 , 21000414

Qty:
$45.21
Dorman Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • Drain Thread Size: 12
    • Maximum Depth: 5.75
    • Maximum Width: 10.5
    • Package Contents: Oil Pan
    • Sump Location: Center
    • Sump Type: Wet
Brand: Dorman
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
1996 - Saturn SC2 L 4 Cyl 1.9L 116 -
Dorman
2004 Saturn Vue Engine Oil Pan 4 Cyl 2.2L Dorman

P311-03873D2    264-477  New

12599237 , 90537782 , 24406361 , GMP59A , 19256218 , 19210614 , 90537735

Qty:
$98.64
Dorman Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • Drain Thread Size: 14
    • Maximum Depth: 4.5
    • Maximum Width: 12
    • Mounting Hole Quantity: 17
    • Package Contents: Oil Pan
    • Sump Location: Center
    • Sump Type: Wet
Brand: Dorman
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2004 - Saturn Vue L 4 Cyl 2.2L 134 2198
Dorman
2004 Saturn Ion Engine Oil Pan Dorman

P311-3A7F026    264-133  New

12578193 , GMP58A , 103332 , 12601240

Qty:
$104.39
Dorman Engine Oil Pan
  • ; L4 134CID 2.2L
  • Product Attributes:
    • Drain Thread Size: 12
    • Maximum Depth: 4.5
    • Maximum Width: 12.25
    • Mounting Hole Quantity: 17
    • Package Contents: Oil Pan
    • Sump Location: Center
    • Sump Type: Wet
Brand: Dorman
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle
2004 - Saturn Ion
Dorman
2007 Saturn Ion Engine Oil Pan 4 Cyl 2.2L Dorman

P311-3A7F026    264-133  New

12578193 , GMP58A , 103332 , 12601240

Qty:
$104.39
Dorman Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • Drain Thread Size: 12
    • Maximum Depth: 4.5
    • Maximum Width: 12.25
    • Mounting Hole Quantity: 17
    • Package Contents: Oil Pan
    • Sump Location: Center
    • Sump Type: Wet
Brand: Dorman
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2007 - Saturn Ion L 4 Cyl 2.2L 134 2198
Spectra
2003 Saturn Vue Engine Oil Pan 4 Cyl 2.2L Spectra

P311-0B0E2A5    GMP59A  New

19256218 , SPIGMP59A , 90537735 , 264-477 , 90537782 , 264477

Qty:
$114.34
Spectra Engine Oil Pan
  • Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • California_Prop 65 Message:
      • May Cause Cancer Or Reproductive Harm
      • Y
  • Innovative engineering, manufacturing technology and quality control ensure that Spectra Premium oil pans meet or exceed the performance of the original equipment they replace.
Brand: Spectra
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2003 - Saturn Vue L 4 Cyl 2.2L 134 2198
Spectra
2001 Saturn LW300 Engine Oil Pan Spectra

P311-3573561    GMP86A  New

31100871 , 264478 , 9157816 , 09157816 , SPIGMP86A

Qty:
$271.86
Spectra Engine Oil Pan
  • Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • California_Prop 65 Message:
      • May Cause Cancer Or Reproductive Harm
      • Y
  • Innovative engineering, manufacturing technology and quality control ensure that Spectra Premium oil pans meet or exceed the performance of the original equipment they replace.
Brand: Spectra
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle
2001 - Saturn LW300
Spectra
2000 Saturn SC1 Engine Oil Pan Spectra

P311-338EFCA    GMP21A  New

677 , 103225 , KGMP21A , 264131 , 21000414 , 21015428 , SPIGMP21A , 21008469 , 501109 , IGMP21A

Qty:
$53.23
Spectra Engine Oil Pan
  • Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • California_Prop 65 Message:
      • May Cause Cancer Or Reproductive Harm
      • Y
  • Innovative engineering, manufacturing technology and quality control ensure that Spectra Premium oil pans meet or exceed the performance of the original equipment they replace.
Brand: Spectra
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle
2000 - Saturn SC1
Spectra
2006 Saturn Relay Engine Oil Pan 6 Cyl 3.5L Spectra

P311-06B79A4    GMP66A  New

12593455 , 12588128 , 12581555 , SPIGMP66A , 264-481 , 264481 , 976

Qty:
$135.84
Spectra Engine Oil Pan
  • Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • California_Prop 65 Message:
      • May Cause Cancer Or Reproductive Harm
      • Y
  • Innovative engineering, manufacturing technology and quality control ensure that Spectra Premium oil pans meet or exceed the performance of the original equipment they replace.
Brand: Spectra
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2006 - Saturn Relay V 6 Cyl 3.5L 213 -
Spectra
2006 Saturn Vue Engine Oil Pan 6 Cyl 3.5L Spectra

P311-2D78668    GMP84A  New

12582338 , SPIGMP84A

Qty:
$124.41
Spectra Engine Oil Pan
  • Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • California_Prop 65 Message:
      • May Cause Cancer Or Reproductive Harm
      • Y
  • Innovative engineering, manufacturing technology and quality control ensure that Spectra Premium oil pans meet or exceed the performance of the original equipment they replace.
Brand: Spectra
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2006 - Saturn Vue V 6 Cyl 3.5L - 3471
Spectra
2007 Saturn Vue Engine Oil Pan 4 Cyl 2.4L Spectra

P311-1537F93    GMP58A  New

SPIGMP58A , 12601240 , 103332 , 264133 , 2002712 , KGMP58A , 12578193 , 962

Qty:
$118.51
Spectra Engine Oil Pan
  • Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • California_Prop 65 Message:
      • May Cause Cancer Or Reproductive Harm
      • Y
  • Innovative engineering, manufacturing technology and quality control ensure that Spectra Premium oil pans meet or exceed the performance of the original equipment they replace.
Brand: Spectra
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2007 - Saturn Vue L 4 Cyl 2.4L 145 2384
Spectra
2010 Saturn Vue Engine Oil Pan 6 Cyl 3.5L Spectra

P311-4EE8ECA    GMP66B  New

264330 , SPIGMP66B , 12604911 , 12603201

Qty:
$170.40
Spectra Engine Oil Pan
  • Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • California_Prop 65 Message:
      • May Cause Cancer Or Reproductive Harm
      • Y
  • Innovative engineering, manufacturing technology and quality control ensure that Spectra Premium oil pans meet or exceed the performance of the original equipment they replace.
Brand: Spectra
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2010 - Saturn Vue V 6 Cyl 3.5L 213 3490
Spectra
2010 Saturn Vue Engine Oil Pan 6 Cyl 3.6L Spectra

P311-120D019    GMP68A  New

31100119 , 12636673 , 12609875 , 12638371 , 12625110 , 12838371 , 264377 , SPIGMP68A , KGMP68A , 264-377

Qty:
$138.75
Spectra Engine Oil Pan
  • Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • California_Prop 65 Message:
      • May Cause Cancer Or Reproductive Harm
      • Y
  • Innovative engineering, manufacturing technology and quality control ensure that Spectra Premium oil pans meet or exceed the performance of the original equipment they replace.
Brand: Spectra
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2010 - Saturn Vue V 6 Cyl 3.6L 217 3564
ATP
2000 Saturn SC1 Engine Oil Pan 4 Cyl 1.9L ATP

P311-382BC8B    103225  New

TW6757B , 103225 , 264131 , 21015428 , 501109

Qty:
$79.46
ATP Engine Oil Pan
  • ATP Engine Oil Pan
  • Product Attributes:
    • LineCode: Atp2
  • The engine oil pan is a critical part of the engine. It acts as a holding tank for engine oil which is the life blood for every engine. No engine can survive without oil. Engine oil pans can become damaged from road debris, corrosion, or bolt/drain plug over tightening. When this happens oil can leak out of the oil pan resulting significant engine damage. ATP Engine Oil Pans fit and function just like the original part ensuring long life and durability.
Brand: ATP
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2000 - Saturn SC1 L 4 Cyl 1.9L 116 -
Spectra Premium
2004 Saturn Vue Engine Oil Pan Spectra Premium

P311-181C8B1    W0133-1865990  New

Qty:
$190.77
Spectra Premium Engine Oil Pan
  • Including Drain Plug.
Brand: Spectra Premium
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Cylinder Head Type
2004 - Saturn Vue SOHC
MTC
2006 Saturn Relay Engine Oil Pan MTC - -W/Gasket & Drain Bolt

P311-4BEC81C    W0133-1866174  New

Qty:
$212.24
MTC Engine Oil Pan
  • -W/Gasket & Drain Bolt
Brand: MTC
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle
2006 - Saturn Relay
Spectra Premium
2006 Saturn Relay Engine Oil Pan Spectra Premium

P311-4CED87C    W0133-1866174  New

Qty:
$229.20
Spectra Premium Engine Oil Pan
Brand: Spectra Premium
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle
2006 - Saturn Relay
Dorman
2005 Saturn Vue Engine Oil Pan 4 Cyl 2.2L Dorman

P311-15B822F    W0133-1866340  New

Qty:
$191.51
Dorman Engine Oil Pan
Brand: Dorman
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2005 - Saturn Vue L 4 Cyl 2.2L 134 2198
Genuine
2008 Saturn Aura Engine Oil Pan 6 Cyl 3.5L Genuine

P311-35C415B    W0133-1866366  New

Qty:
$316.88
Genuine Engine Oil Pan
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • Includes Pan Gasket, Drain Plug and Oil Level Switch
Brand: Genuine
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2008 - Saturn Aura V 6 Cyl 3.5L 213 3490
MTC
2007 Saturn Outlook Engine Oil Pan MTC

P311-4A810D1    W0133-2624295  New

Qty:
$207.37
MTC Engine Oil Pan
Brand: MTC
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle
2007 - Saturn Outlook
Dorman
2002 Saturn SC1 Engine Oil Pan Dorman

P311-1934B1E    W0133-1871033  New

Qty:
$78.69
Dorman Engine Oil Pan
Brand: Dorman
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle
2002 - Saturn SC1

Latest Saturn Repair and Oil Pan Installation Advice

CarJunky AutoAdvice

93' Saturn SW2 rattle noise

Showing 2 out of 10 Posts | Show 8 Hidden Posts
Question From wayne28307 on 93' Saturn SW2 rattle noise

I have a 93 Saturn SW2 Wagon, Rebuilt Twin Cam motor, original Transmisson Chassis has 96K on it. As I started up my querky yet reliable wagon, i noticed a rattling noise coming from under the car near the catalitic converter. my guess is its a heat sheild; but the noise (EXREAMLY ANNOYING) is almost non existant at idle with the tranny in park. when i engage the tranny be it reverse or drive. the noise is loud enough to be annoying. as the RPM's increase it gets louder then the noise quiets down when at highway speed with the tranny in 4th or 5th gear.

Its annoying, and i need some advise. I cant take much more of this noise. it sounds like a coffee can with rocks in it. DRIVING ME NUTS.

Response From wayne28307

So a new problem has risen. the radiator decided to take a massive dump. I replaced it with a High Performance radiator. I wonder whats going to go wrong next....

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Comment: Cars have NO care in the world if you walk or ride and don't care about your wallet. Get used to it and do what you can to prevent the preventable!

T

Response From Tom Greenleaf

It may be a heat shield and you will have to look and choose a plan of attack to fix that,

T

Response From wayne28307 Top Rated Answer

My plan of attack was to tighten the bolts/rip off the heat sheild today; but the weather turned for the worst, I guess im taking it to my shop at work to check it out and hopfully stop the rattle. I have a baby on the way and its one of those things where i dont want to have a major problem, ya know. At first i thought it was the tranny, it jerked into 3rd gear at moderate acceleration yesterday night, but i know saturns auto transaxles suck at up shifting somtimes. especially when the outside temp changes suddenly. (Its september here on long island and its 63 degrees, and the day before that it was 87F)

I hope its the exhuast system and not somthing bouncing around in the tranny/oil pan.... or the timing chain rattiling on the lower guides....


Response From Tom Greenleaf

If a heat shield I suggest fixing it such that it works as it's needed NOT just tearing it off,

T

Response From wayne28307

Well, I found out it was the honeycombing inside the cataliyic converter. so, I ripped it off and welded up a strait pipe for the time being until i have the cash to get a new cat.

gas mileage increased a lot and the car is quieter since the cat delete... Illegal... but w/e it will have a new one before inspection next year.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Suggestion: If when funds available get a cat from OE stock not the aftermarket junk which is price friendly but ends there! That if the car is a "Keeper" for you,

T

Response From wayne28307

Planning on gettin OEM saturn stock cat, if i can afford it.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

I know it hurts! Also - if engine operation caused this fix that or find out why fast a converter can be destroyed in short order again!

T

General question about an overfilled engine crankcase-1997 Saturn

Showing 2 out of 9 Posts | Show 7 Hidden Posts
Question From huxley on General question about an overfilled engine crankcase-1997 Saturn

Hey guys,

Would like to know your thoughts on this...

Say you have a 1997 Saturn 4 Cylinder (I forget the model, car belongs to my grandmother) with about 80,000 miles on it. The car takes 4 quarts of oil with a new filter. The service shop had been putting at least 5+ quarts in, if not more, for quite some time. She had never had me take a look at the car until about a month ago when her check engine light came on. I pulled the wires off the spark plugs and cylinder 1 was full of oil...looked like pressure had built up and blown past whatever is there (valve seal?) and wasn't firing on that cylinder. I checked the dipstick after the car was cooled down and saw that it was a good two inches past the full mark-no bs. I siphoned out the oil from cylinder 1 the best I could and told her exactly what to tell the shop. She told them and they charged her $400. This was to replace the plugs, fix whatever seal broke, change her belts (because they were soaked with oil), etc. A typical tune up I guess. My problem is this...the engine compartment is a mess, they've been overfilling the crankcase for who knows how long-and as far as I know that builds up an inordinate amount of pressure and is probably the reason her seals and gaskets are all failing on the engine. Not only could this have taken years off the engine, it also has been throwing oil onto any part that will accept it and could create a dangerous situation. I'm really ticked off about this and wanted some suggestions from you folks if you have the time. I think they should have replaced those items free of charge-they replaced the belts because they were coated in oil. I feel like the place is taking advantage of an elderly womans lack of knowledge on this subject.

Thanks for your time as always!

-Nate

Response From Tom Greenleaf Top Rated Answer

On average: Engines will hold about 1 qt too much without a disaster - still to be avoided. It's not so much that they build up too much pressure but that the sump level in the oil pan is too high and parts (crankshaft) can splash in it - can be a total disaster right away if too much! Problem is proving that is was in fact overfilled - or what other reason could the oil be too full. Fuel can leak down and dilute and overfill the oil level too - same disasters can happen but you can tell by the oil.

Note: The measurement on a dipstick from the add line to the full line is generally 1 qt. That same measure isn't accurate to measure the increments by quarts over that mark. Some will real way over full with just 1/2 qt too much. Has to do with the shape of the oil pan. Motors must also be designed to tolerate being at an angle which simply puts oil too full at one end of pan or side and lower at the other. That within some norms is designed in. If too low or full and parked or run at an extreme troubles happen.

Side note: Happens to lawn mowers when serious slopes are mowed and some engines croak over that. Is the engine ok now? Hope so.

Can you show a reciept for paying for the wrong amount of oil? Then I'd bring it up with the service shop with the listed capacity in the owner's manual and make a complaint. Other proof is going to be tricky.

Are you going to bat for your grandmother with this situation? Get some proof if you can. If engine is ok and it might be you probably could just negotiate the labor out of that last bill. If engine is NOT ok there's trouble I can smell from here!

Shops of any kind that offer oil change service had better pay strict attention to capacities like this. There was a day when almost everything out there took 4 quarts and 5 with the filter - no such thing anymore for a LONG time.

Here to help if we can,

T

Response From Guest

Hey Tom,

As usual, thank you for the fast and thoughtful reply! I really appreciate the explanation.

My grandmother has a receipt from the most recent work done showing that she was charged for 5 quarts of oil. I'm going to have her check her other receipts (she, like most grandmothers I have met, keeps meticulous records regarding most everything) and I'll betcha anything they all read 5 quarts or more. These are the same guys that sold the used car to her and I never liked the people there and was always suspicious about the guy-and I'm really not the type to hold prejudice against any mechanic for the simple fact that they're a mechanic. There are questionable cracks in the body of the car and I see lots of overspray in strange places-looks like it was painted at some point and they didn't do the best tape job.

How would I know if the engine is ok? Quite frankly, to me anyway, the car SOUNDS terrible but I'm really touchy when it comes to engine noise and I'm not always right-might just be the model or something. Are there any tests I can do in her driveway to find out more about it?

I'd like to go in to the shop and, at the very least, get a full refund for the last batch of work that was done. You should have seen under the hood-oil EVERYWHERE. Seriously, it looked like someone just took used motor oil and did an avant garde painting.

So-how would you approach this? And if I find out that they've been putting 5 quarts in for a long time, what sort of effect might that have over an extended period?

Thanks again Tom,
Nate

Response From Tom Greenleaf

There were a couple Saturns in my care back when. Both nice folks who wicked abused cars - not my thing. Noted on one at least the engine was just plain noisy and was never asked to pin anything down. Neither ever quit and weren't in for every detail so I have minimal overall hands on with these cars.

Just looked and couldn't just find the oil capacity of Saturn engines so easy. What does the owner's manual say? Lot's of cars come thru with like 4.6 qts., US for example and plenty of other assorted #s.

Oil is sold everywhere in qts and in some places "litres" which is a tad more as we know and they'll tolerate the 1.8 extra oz when just adding ONE no problem. Cars simply have to allow for angles and the slosh of oil for turns, stopping, starting, hills etc.

Oil all over the engine now: For the most part it won't hurt anything! I suggest cleaning it up by hand dry, with towels - as I'm not in favor of powerwashing engines with water and leave that as my opinion. Select spots may need degreasing - depends on what is found where and how bad. Air filters won't like beinng oiled so they and housings must be free of oil. Some rubber parts won't do well soaked in oil - particularly cooling system rubber parts, hoses the weak link.

Can you check out this engine and what tools available? If no major tools handy just listen to it - noise noted but is it even and stays runnning well in N and in gear? Engine off - look inside oil filler cap - look clean or sludgy in there? Engine idling - pull dipstick part way up - electric cooling fan off is best, and hold a smokey stick (cigarette works) near the tube and the smoke should draw down the tube. Most engines that will do that are sound as far as compression! Check tailpipe for oiliness and of course visual smoke not good.

An overfilled engine (oil overfilled) would be apt to have oil in excess where it could cause hydraulic problems such as LOCK and could bend rods or who knows.

The gasket leak might have been needed and could have been a PVC problem causing pressure in crankcase and oil gets pushed out of gaskets. If that only engine could be fine. If because of excessive blow-by, bent valves with worn guides, the engine is in trouble!

What else can you note without much for equipment or do you want to send this elsewhere for an overall assesment with compression test. Has other maintenance been done along the way - tune-up items, timing belt job(s), coolant service etc., and just the same check you would do it you were buying the car now.

What would you like to do next?

T

Response From brbettge

Tom, didn't read through the entire thread but I have one bit of info that might be of help. I have had many vehicles come in over the years with this same perceived problem. I have learned the first check to make and the first question to ask is "is this the correct dipstick?" I've found many vehicles with the wrong stick which causes false readings. just a thought..rick

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Nate, Dan and Rick:

Nate, Don't forget to log in or you show up as a guest - we know it's you! We are all on the same page and this is already a read - my fault.

In Summary: A used car has been overfilled by a quart (is that only 1 qt?) over a couple or more oil changes. Leaks happened and gaskets were replaced. The question is whether the overfill caused this. This is a 97 80,000 mile used Saturn something BOUGHT USED.

Dan made the point that ONE quart is likely not an issue or cause - agreed 100%. The exception would be if the car was used or parked and run at what I would consider ridiculous angles. I badgered the point - sorry.

Note: I think we all agree that knowingly and constantly adding too much oil is not a good practice - pros should know better but let's not blame them just so fast for the problems that have happened, car was used!

Dan guessed this was the OHC engine and those did have common issues with PCV and filling up spark plug holes when gaskets gave out. The oil everywhere was probaby a PCV line blowout and quickly makes quite a mess.

Note II: In checking oils and fluids car must be level. For engine oil a wait time is always suggested or it can misread as a bit low when not.

We now know the exact refill amount of 4 qts - good.

Rick made the dipstick point: A whole line of 80 Ford (for example) 302cid or 5.0 engines got those all screwed up when built new - I own 3 now and dealt with some unbelievable # of these engines. Dipsticks were so far off with known 5 qt total fill with new filter that it was scary. All I ever changed oil on I would fill with just 4qts on purpose - wait and mark the dipstick as the spot to add a qt. Then add the quart and mark the "full" mark. I would grind off all info that was on the sticks and make a common line or divot that was clear and used in many vehicles that don't print english on dipsticks. Some of these when the originals read "add one qt" would read way over full! Not one ever had a problem but they weren't really overfull either.

The bit you copied and pasted from some other place is a bit hysterical and has plain mistakes. Oil doesn't care how much is in the sump - you could design an engine to hold 100 qts but it must be at the right level in relation to moving parts above the oil level. A rear main does not just blow out as that article suggested or I misread something. That seal must simply hold oil from spilling out and does need to hold the slight vacuum the engines require in the entire crankcase area which includes the valve covers and more. When accellerating hard the oil would rush to the back of a traditional layout engine and would cause damage if that wasn't thought of new. In this car a hard turn would slosh it side to side also and must tolerate that and does.

I kind of doubt the repairs done were out of line. The important thing now is clear the air with this shop about NOT using too much oil AND inform your grandmother to check or have checked the oil at regular intervals in between changes - we all should do that even when we think a car doesn't consume any.

Nate: You are a good guy to watch out for your grandmother! I think you can work with the same shop with a good understanding and if you really think something's wrong there find another and bring your grandmother with you and make a schedule or routine services and and everyone will feel better about this. I really don't think many shops or tech's really are out to get you or rip you off - YOU aleards know how difficult from some other threads how things can get.

Be well,

Tom

Response From huxley

Hey Tom,

Alright sounds good. Sorry for not logging back in, I lost power here between those posts and forgot it logged me out after that.

A few things I did want to mention-she's had the car since at least 2002 or before. This could have been going on since that time. In fact, I would bet it has been. I'll have her check. I don't have time to say much else right now, sorry! I appreciate the time you put into these posts Tom, seriously, it really helps me out!

Take care and I'll be in touch soon,
Nate

Response From Guest

Hey Tom and Dan,

The owners manual for the car reads exactly 4 quarts with filter. I think Dan is right with it being a SL2, I am not familiar with Saturn models at all.

As far as the condition-I still don't know. I do remember seeing a decent amount of build up or the black death/sludge from where I could see down the oil filler area. I've seen worse, but only one other time. I'll try out the cheap vacuum test you mention and see what happens. I mean, the thing still runs, but it doesn't run well in my opinion. I'm a motorcycle guy at heart and that knowledge has not carried over well to cars thus far-but my thoughts are, at the very least, the shop should refund her the cost of one quart of oil for however many times they changed it with too much.

Oh, and here is where a lot of my concerns come from-I read this on a website called "carbibles"

What happens when an engine is overfilled with oil?

So you topped up the engine when it was warm after getting a faulty dipstick reading, or you put too much oil in when you changed it yourself. What's the worst that could happen? Well the problem with this is that the next time the engine is run, the windage in the crankcase and other pressures generated by the oil pump, etc. place a great strain on the seal on the rear main bearing.
Eventually, often much sooner than the ordinary man in the street might expect, the rear main bearing seal ruptures, and the engine becomes a 'leaker'. If you've got a manual gearbox, this means one thing: this oil goes right onto the flywheel and the face of the clutch disc. A lubricated clutch is A Bad Thing. If this still goes unnoticed, the front seal is the next to go, and the engine then becomes a 'gusher' (or to be more colourful, it starts pissing oil all over the place). As well as smothering the clutch with oil from the rear, the oil now coming from the front leak will be neatly distributed about the engine bay as it hits the front pulley - often propelling it out as far as the brake discs. At the same time as this Hollywood disaster movie is unfolding outside the engine, things aren't working out any better on the inside. As you can see from the diagram, the correct oil level is really close to the rotating crank. Overfilling will mean the crank dips into the oil and churns it into a froth. Froth is good on certain types of coffee but not good in an engine. The mixture of aerated oil will be forced into the bearings and in case you didn't know, air is not a lubricant. Typically this means that bearing damage will follow quite rapidly, especially if you are driving on a motorway. You'll know bearing damage when you get it. The engine smells like a garage mechanic cooking over an open flame and the noise coming from the engine is the sort of thing you'd normally hear in vaudeville plays when a piano is pushed down a flight of stairs. As if that all wasn't bad enough, the excess oil gets thrown up into the piston bores where the piston rings have a hard time coping with the excess oil and pressure. It gets into the combustion chamber and some of it will get out into the exhaust system unburned resulting in a nice patina of oil all over the platinum surfaces of your catalytic converter. This renders it utterly useless for good.
Well, you did ask.

Anyway, thanks again Tom and Dan for the help and I'll see where grandma would like to go from here, if anywhere.

Response From DanD

Before I begin I’m not siding with anyone here (the repair shop or yourself) but in my opinion 1 quart of extra oil, would not cause any adverse affects on this engine. No it’s no right that the repair shop was over filling the crankcase but the over fill would have to be much more then just one quart; something like enough oil for the bottoms of the pistons having to push through the oil, defiantly would cause an issue.
With your description of
I pulled the wires off the spark plugs and cylinder 1 was full of oil
This is likely a SL2 double overhead cam engine?
If by chance this engine is the double overhead cam engine, they are well known for valve cover gaskets and spark plug well seals failing.
When the spark plug well seal fails the spark plug well fills with oil, eventually causing the spark plug to become submerged in oil. When this happens the ignition wire looses its insulation qualities because it’s soaked in oil and the spark will short to the cylinder head; allowing that cylinder to misfire.
As for what kind of mess a leaking valve cover gasket makes; especially on an overhead cam engine; well just ask anyone who has ever made the mistake of starting one of these engines with the valve cover off. I had to get the step latter out and clean the oil off the 20 foot high ceilings in the shop. LOL
What I have found with these engines is that the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve or the vacuum supply to the PCV fails. With out this positive ventilation, yes the crankcase will built excessive pressure blowing out seals. 1 extra quart of oil with a properly functioning PCV system will not build any measurable pressure; not any that would blow out a seal anyway.
What is the general condition of the engine; if there is excessive piston ring blow-by cause by excessive engine wear; even a good PCV system will not be able to handle the crankcase pressures?
These are the same guys that sold the used car to her
Your Grandmother bought a used car; who knows what kind of beating the last cowboy put on this car? Even if it were not beaten on but for some unknown reason this engine was ever overheated; this could have caused internal damage and is why the previous owner sold the car?

Now if by chance the PCV system is the cause of this oily mess; that’s where I would be asking the repair shop for an explanation. As to why that was missed, if they have been doing a proper servicing on the car.
I think there’s a lot of room here for some give & take; go in and talk to them. See if they have any history on the vehicle before your Grandmother bought the thing.
Get a second opinion from a garage that you do trust; tell them that you want to know what’s wrong with the car not what was wrong with the other shop’s services. You don’t want to get involved with a slam fest.

Looks like we're thinking along the same lines Tom.
Dan.

Leaking Transmission

Showing 2 out of 5 Posts | Show 3 Hidden Posts
Question From globe216 on Leaking Transmission

Year:1998
Make:Saturn
Model:SL2
Engine:1.9L
Mileage:94,803
My car has been leaking transmission fluid lately. I took it to a shop last week, they changed the transmission fluid and filter but it still leaks. So I took it back today and they told me there are two hoses that run from the radiator to the transmission that are leaking. They said they are about $35 each and they would wave the labor.They warned me the radiator could be damaged in the process. Have I been ripped off, or is it typical to fix a transmission leak by changing the filter and adding more fluid. Perhaps they were just being lazy? Any advice would be helpful as I don't want to jump to conclusions.

Response From Hammer Time

They likely just didn't look close enough the first time when they changed the pan gasket. They saw one leak at the pan and didn't look any further for other leaks. Everything they say makes sense and the price is cheap enough.

Response From globe216

Is it typical to attempt to fix a leak by changing the filter and adding more fluid? They were aware that I wanted two leaks fixed, I even created an illustration that indicated where the leaks were coming from before any work was done. Thanks for you time.

Response From Hammer Time

If you showed them where the leaks were, then they don't have much excuse for missing them but in the end, you still ended up repairing the same 2 leaks so you are in the same position as if they did them both the first time. You didn't pay much of anything for the repairs.

Response From Sidom Top Rated Answer

On most tranny's the pan is a common area to leak. Yours doesn't have an oil pan (does have a valve body pan on top) & uses a oil filter similar to an engine oil filter.... Since it was leaking before the service then damaging the cooler line hoses during a fluid exchange is really moot.

Normally you won't damage a radiator changing the hoses but in some cases the fitting at the radiator can leak & in that case the rad would have to be replaced..... Sound like they may not but 100% sure and are covering their bases, and if the rad is leaking, you would want to change the old hoses anyway....kinda like buying new shoes & using the old laces...

Look at it this way.... You did need the service, you had the leak before & they are giving you a break on the labor on the hoses..... Other than missing the orginal leak, sounds like they're takin care of you........Hey we're all human.....

Satrun 2002 sl1 help please...

Showing 3 out of 23 Posts | Show 20 Hidden Posts
Question From jewlsu4 on Satrun 2002 sl1 help please...

Hi, I have an issue with my 2002 Saturn sl1 over 200,000 k. I started it the other day and the oil presser light came on so I turned the car off and checked the oil. It was a little low but good. It has been burning oil a lot. So I tried to restart it and it wouldn't go, it turned over lights and radio were working. I got a boost and it stared after a few tries. The battery is fine. So the oil pressure like came back on while driving. Flashing while accelerating. then going off when not. I checked the oil again and added more. And I made it back home. So I Changed out the oil pressure censor. And it continued to have the same problem.. You can smell burning oil .And I checked right away under the car and noticed the flex pipe was smoking. Would the flex pipe cause the oil presser light to come on. Or what would cause the issue with the flex pipe. There is a lot of oil at the back of the engine but I don’t know if there is a leak or not. There is black soot in the tail pipe. There are no trouble codes. I did a dry compression test 4 or 5 stroke. 5 count. But I guess I didn't leave it long enough and will have to re due it. Cylinder 1 came in at 135. - 2 was at 150. -3 at 140 -4 at 150. Plugs are clean. Boots and wires volt tested 1.at 3.9. -2 at 3.4. -3 at 3.1. -4 at 2.6. I also did an air leak test with a air compressor in the cylinder. No air coming from the coolant, No air from the tail pipe No air coming from the oil cap area. But air was coming from the throttle body. But I didn't remove the PCV valve. Which I guess can give a false reading so Ill have to re due that. The air intake manifold was removed at the time. I checked the PCV valve and it was oily and there were traces of oil in the tube to the throttle body. I'm not sure if that's normal. The valve was changed last year. I check out the fuel system by doing a few simple tests, system came on when in on position also heard the whirl in the tank. The water pump and starter and etc. censer where recently changed. Car temp says it’s normal, the EGR valve was cleaned. The hoses for the coolant are hot. Fan only works well on high I have to fix that. Now I did notice that the Exhaust manifold got extremely hot after only one minute of the engine running. And I stared to smell burning oil. May that be an issue? I’ve had no luck with getting an oil presser tester. All I could find are gauges no testers. Checked all part stores and pawn shops and kijiji. I priced out getting it checked at a few places and they want 150 to 250 to check it. So I think I will try and make one. I think all I need is a liquid filled gauge with 50 to 150 psi. And a fitting for the oil censer area and tube. I will try that and see if I can get a presser reading. If you have any thoughts please comment.

Response From Discretesignals

Wow that is one heck of a long paragraph. In fact in the middle of your paragraph you repeated what you just wrote.


I think the main thing you should be concerned with is the low oil pressure light coming on. All the other stuff doesn't mean anything if the engine has low oil pressure. You need to hook up an oil pressure gauge to confirm if it actually has low oil pressure or not. If it does, you might as well start looking for another engine or vehicle.

Response From jewlsu4

I fixed my original post I think.lol.

Response From Discretesignals

Engine oil pressure testers can be found all over the internet. Even Amazon sells them.

Your first priority is determining if the engine itself has adaquate oil pressure. You shouldn't drive or run the engine anymore until you have the oil pressure tested. Without enough or any oil pressure, your engine is toast.

Response From jewlsu4

I don't want to order on online it could take weeks to get it. Do I need just a gauge or a tester? Is there a difference for my particular situation? I found some gauges at princess auto. Just not sure what one I am suppose to get the air one that reads 0 to 200 or the liquid one that reads from 0 to 2000 psi. I was told at idle the oil pressure should be 13psi min, at 2000 rpms it should be 29psi min oil pressure cold at 2500 rpms 80psi min. So I need a gauge that would show lower psi readings?

Response From Discretesignals

You wouldn't want a gauge that reads more than 100 psi or else you would have a hard time reading lower pressures. You should be able to tell them what you want it for and they may be able to point you in the right direction. Ideally you want the tester because the tester comes with a gauge, hose, and adapters so you can screw the hose into the oil pressure port on the engine. If you go your route, you have to gather all the pieces to make it work.

Something like this would work:



Response From jewlsu4

Got a oil pressure tester. Started the car. Oil reading came in at 59 for idle at 100 rpms. On the cold engine. After it warmed up.It slowly went down to 10. at 70 rpms. At cold start at 2000 rpms the gauge went up to 70. Also not much of a change when up to 2500.rpms. I let the car warm up for 5 mins. Checking the rpms occasionally to see if they went up when accelerated. Only went up to 70. So after the car was warm I went up to 3000 .Then I lost pressure. It would not go back up when rpms raised. Idle stayed at 10 on Gage. I shut the car off checked the connection for the ague. I restarted the car but there was no pressure on acceleration. I waited an hour and Restarted the car And the gauge read 18 psi. And when revved the gauge lowered. I shut the car off. Any Ideas?

Response From Hammer Time

I'm suspecting that the sump screen is getting plugged up with garbage in the pan. You probably should drop the pan and check it out.

Response From jewlsu4

Did another compression tests 10 strokes. Came back with 175-180 for cylinders. Gonna get a T connector hook in pressure tester and censer and run till the light comes on again. See what going on and go from there. Don't think I have the right tools to drop the oil pan.

Response From Hammer Time

About the only way oil pressure will drop under acceleration is if it loses the oil supply fpr some reason and a blocked screen is the most likely. Compression has nothing to do with the problem.

Response From jewlsu4

Well after coming to no conclusion. I brought my car into Canadian tire, which it the closest place for me.I told them everything and they lifted it up to see what was going on.They think That I have a leak some where at the back of the engine and also from somewhere in the Timing chain camshaft area. He also said he smells fuel in the oil. He said the cost of repairs are not worth fixing it. So I guess I'm looking for a new car. Not sure where to start with that one.lol.Thanks for everything.

Response From Hammer Time

If they took nothing apart their diagnosis amounts to no more than a wild guess. It's a 2002. It should be worth putting a used motor into.

Response From Discretesignals Top Rated Answer

The guy didn't charge me which was nice. He just kept telling me how impressed he was with me.lol.

I think he was more interested in you than the car. I can't blame him.

I'd be curious to pull the valve cover and see if the top of the cylinder head is sludged up. HT is probably on the right track about the pick up screen getting clogged. Its also possible the oil returns on the top of the head could be sludged and not letting the oil return to the oil pan fast enough. The oil leaks could have started because there is excessive crank case pressure from a non functioning crankcase ventilation system. Usually they become non functional due to being plugged up with sludge.

Response From jewlsu4

I'm gonna take off the valve cover, the tire and splash Gard and see If there's any obvious.

Response From Hammer Time

Tire and splash guard?

We're looking at the inside of the engine, not the outside. There is nothing to see in the wheel well.

Response From jewlsu4

I was just going to take it off to look and see whats going on I have to take it all aprt to get in there anyway. So I did notice one thing today when replacing the Oil censer from the presser tester and saw that the wire connector to the censer has two hole for the prongs. But only one of the holes had a piece of metal in it for connection.Would that be another issue. Or is it suppose to be like that. Well I went car shopping with no luck yet I did find a used sea bring convertible jx. lol. 130 k for 3999. Might get me by for a bit and have some fun in the summer. Gonna get at the valve cover this week sometime.

Response From Hammer Time

Simply look at how many wires there are.

Response From Discretesignals

You might as well shoot yourself in the face if you buy a Sebring. Just my 2 cents.

Response From jewlsu4

No Sea Bring.lol Just like the idea of a convertible. I took some pics. I took off the valve cover. And it was clean, Maybe to dry? Right side had a little oil and left side was clean You can see the brass tones. So I took off the wheel and gard to have a look where the leak may be comeing from because theres only oil around the filter area Alternator and above the filer which I cant getrin to see.The tensioner, pump and pully and belt clean.I 'm pretty sure its too much to just be a leaky filter. But I dont know could be spreeding out. Im gonna do a filter change anyway and try and clean up the area. I did not see any leaks from the valve cover or any oil around on the engine. Not sure about the leak in the back could be old oil?Who knows yet. Its snowing and that's all I can do today.lol.

Response From Discretesignals

Thanks for letting us know your outcome even though it sucks monkey nuts. Sorry to see that you had gotten bad news. It doesn't take very long to trash an engine once the oil pressure goes out.

If the transmission and the rest of the car is in good shape, you might be able to get a good low mileage used engine from a salvage yard and have it installed. Most salvage yards have a warranty, so check that out. You can also go with a re-manufactured long block if you don't want a salvage yard unit. It may be cheaper to have another engine installed instead of having payments on a new car or buying a used one.

Get some quotes and then you can make a better decision on what you would like to do. If you go with another used vehicle, have it inspected by your mechanic before purchasing it. It's smart to have a professional check it over to be sure your not getting another problem child.

Response From jewlsu4

I don't think the engine is trashed. The engine Compression is good? Not making any noise or over heating. Its still running. It didn't die to and from the shop.lol. I had the pressure tester on all the way and it stayed at About 60 psi on the way there. I didn't check it on the way back after the bad news but I tried to stay under 2000 rpms. It did fell a little doggish going home. I think the pressure did drop. We lifted up the front right splash shield and there is a lot of oil coming from some where which wasn't there a few weeks ago. And I park in the same spot everyday and no puddle. The guy said it would be like 900 bucks just to get in a look at that one spot. Then there's a leak at the back of the engine behind the starter which he guesses is a head gasket. Which I could probably do myself. And then the fuel thing too. But that could be because of the head gasket I think If there's a leak. He mentioned checking the fuel injectors and that maybe to much fuel is getting in. I dont have a garage I'm doing this on the street in front of my house.lol. And to remove the crankshaft and what not could get messy. I may park it in the back and wait till the summer and have a project on my hands. I wont be buying a used car. Brand new. I don't want to buy someone elses problem.lol. I bought my Saturn brand new off the lot and I think I put just as much into it as I paid for it. The guy didn't charge me which was nice. He just kept telling me how impressed he was with me.lol.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

jewlsu4: Please space out thought like paragraphs. I may be challenged but can't read run on sentences and paragraphs,

T

Response From Hammer Time

http://www.tooltopia.com/search.aspx?find=oil+pressure+tester