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nocking in engine

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Question From knighthawks3 on nocking in engine

im working on my mother inlaws car its a 1990 geo prizm with a 1.6 engine.it had a very bad nock while driving but nothing in park or neutral.i was driving it to her house and the nocking stopped and the car died.i thought maybe cam shaft but i took the top of cams are fine but there is alot of oil on 2 of the 4 spark plugs.she just bought this car and they told her they just replaced everything above the head.im thinking piston threw the head?

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

nighthawk; Without being able to 'hear' the knock, it's tough from here. Which two plugs are oil fouled? Try using a long screwdriver with your ear to the handle to try and find the area that the knock is coming from. Could be a pre-ignition knock or worse. Of course, take safety precautions when doing this with a running engine.

Response From knighthawks3

im sorry forgot to mention after it died it wont start now and it getting very little compretion.from all the oil on the plugs im assumming.i think it was 3 and 4 but cars not here to double check.

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

Remove, clean, and dry all of the spark plugs. Which two cylinders have the oil? See if you can get it started afterwards. May want to take a compression test on all four while the plugs are out. You'll probably get a higher reading on the oil fouled cylinders, but post the results.

Response From knighthawks3

found the problem.one of the piston arms broke and is wedged between the shaft.fun fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!any handy tips on how to replace it without taking head off.ive never had to do this type of repair.

Response From Loren Champlain Sr
Top Rated Answer

knighthawks; What did you remove in order to 'see' this? Valve cover? Are you referring to a 'rocker arm'. The 'connecting rod' attaches the piston to the crankshaft and this is not something that you can 'see' without at least removing the oil pan and cylinder head. So, I'm wondering just what you are actually seeing?

Response From knighthawks3

took off oil pan

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

Refer to Hammer's reply. If it 'threw' a connecting rod, the engine is history. Sorry.

Response From Hammer Time

You are kidding, right?

Not only will you have to remove the head but there is a very good chance that the crankshaft and block are damaged and not reusable.

You just need a rebuilt engine (long block) to repair that car.

Response From knighthawks3

the arm broke when i was trying to turn it over.i took the oil pan off and looked inside everything looked o.k. from that view.but ill remove the head and look and see forsure.ill let you no tomarow if i see anything.only paid 500 for the car not worth changeing engine.

Response From Hammer Time

If this engine broke or threw a connecting rod, unless you are trained in what to look for, don't even take it apart. You are going to cause more problems then you can imagine. You need to measure things with micrometers and really know what you are doing. You can't just mix all those parts together. Everything has to go back in the exact spot and position it came out

92 Geo Prizm vibrates rough at 1200-1800 Rpms

Showing 7 out of 9 Posts | Show 2 Hidden Posts
Question From Big-T on 92 Geo Prizm vibrates rough at 1200-1800 Rpms

Hello all my name is Tony...I am good with my hands but def not a motor head...I can do lots of things on my own when i find the problem that needs to be fixed.I am here today cause i can not even find the problem to fix it, And would like a large range of knowledge to try and steer me in the right direction,Ok i am tring to fix my girl friends car...It's a 1992 Geo Prizm Lsi with 195,000 miles and a 4 cyl 16 valve Fe motor in it(After research its same as a Toyota Corolla)..I am not the driver of this car so i can only go off what she has told me...I know the car ran ok for it's year and miles...But out of no where she has this bad engine vibration that is very bad...I went to the easy things first which were indeed busted to pcs(Engine mounts and trans mounts)..Did not fix the problem..This problem does not require the car to be moving to do this so i scratched off tires/Drive line(Axles)..This accures at somewhere in the range of 1200-1800 rpms,At idle it's fine...and at a higher rpm it's fine....I have pull trans and dropped oil pan and i still do not see nothing that would cause this..I was told a bent piston rod could do this(From A LOCAL SHOP)..But i put all cyl at top dead center and stuck gauge through spark plug hole and not even a slight diffrence(I figured that was enough to take that off the list)..I was wondering if a bad torq conveter could cause this prob..I also notice when i dropped trans it was marked with yellow marker 97 corolla as well as the torq converter(So i know it's either used or a junk yard item)...But it was the one in there since she owed it....Plus i was also told to remove all belts and try to wiggle all pully's up down and back and forth(Still nothing)..I was told the main pulley is a balancer norm made with rubber in it which i could see,But no noteable damage....If anyone has heard of this or could give me simple things to try i would love to soak in the info and give it a shot...Also while the car is running and in park could something inside trans cause this...?.....Thanks for your time and i will be checking back daily....She has my car and i want it back(Smile)...

Response From dmac0923

you seemed to have covered the basics pretty well.

my recommendations would have been

motor mounts
trans mount
axles
transmission input bearing

you may be onto something with the harmonic balancer. I have heard of harmonic balancers 'shifting" meaning the rubber and the metal are no longer one piece and is taking the motor rotating assembly out of balance ever so slightly

Response From Big-T

Well yes as i stated i am good with my hands and try alot before i ask questions.I am a suspension mech for cars and rigs just not a daily motor guy....Again i have trans out and oil Pan down as of today and am lost on whats the issue here ...Trans has leaks so i wanted to seal it anyhow so i figured i could look to see if the prob was there somewhere and while it's down and out i will do rear main seal...The problem here is many things can be done while i have it apart but i hate to do all this and find out that i can't solve the problem i am here asking about just to turn around and junk the car....Grrrrr

Response From Big-T

Ok...Does anyone know if this car that i posted about in first post have a balanced cam in it (16 valve Dohc Fe model Motor)

Response From DanD
Top Rated Answer

I had a look through the service bulletins that I have and found nothing directly concerning engine or trans vibrations. There was one article on the torque converter’s clutch coming apart causing a shudder but I’m not sure if this would address your concerns?
If you don’t physically find anything, put the car back together and try starting the engine with the torque converter left undone, from the engine. If your vibration is gone, you’ll know what you’ll be doing again; it always comes apart easier the second time. LOL
Sorry I don’t mean to make fun of but that’s the joy of searching for something that doesn’t want to give up its secrets.
I don’t think this engine uses an internal balance shaft?
When you checked the harmonic balancer did you try running the engine with the belts off? I’ve had water pumps or AC clutches not make a sound but the bearings be all but destroyed?

Dan.

Response From Big-T

Well no worries about poking fun,I have torn stuff apart many times just to find the problem and your right second time is always easier..(Smiles)...So back to the topic,I spoke with a local trans guy that has been in bizz for many years here local and explained the issues.. And thats who said he was not sure of this motor But has heard of the balance cam chain or something to that matter would get wacked and cause a shake/Vibration...He also noted to me about unbolting torq converter as well as you noted start motor and see if i still had it(I didn't know i could do that duh!!) So i am going to reseal the whole trans and rear main seal and throw it in and see what i have....I also was told by the trans guy that the main pulley may not wobble, And by hand could not tell if the rubber was bad but it could spin inside itself to throw it out of balance,So...1st i would like to thank you for looking that up for me cause i neither couldn't find anything about a balance cam for this car.....And thanks for your thought about the other pulleys,But if you was here you would know for a fact it was not no water pump pulley(lol)...This is a crazy vibration...But be sure i will check them all before i put belts back on,Also i checked the main pulley while belts were off(No tension)....I will do what i stated and keep yah posted on progress and or help if i need more...Thank's Tony...Any advice while i am getting to this i will soak in to my thoughts....

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

Tony; If you haven't reinstalled the trans already, check the flex plate very carefully for cracks. Between the torque converter, flex plate, and harmonic balancer, sounds like you are on the right track. And, with your attitude, I'm pretty comfortable in saying that you'll succeed in finding the problem. Good luck.

Response From Big-T

Well i am on hold do to going to my girls this weekend,But i will be back at it after the weekend and need to get it out of my shop where i work...(Kinda taking up a bay from my boss(Not Good lol)...When you say flexplate do you me Flywheel..?...again not a motor head so words and terms my get me by surprise...Thank you all once again...Tony

Response From Big-T

Ok my online friends/Helpers...I had time to return to this project and here is my results....

If you rem i had removed trans to get a further look.....Well trans turned out ok.....Flywheel was ok.....so i resealed rear of motor and reseal the whole trans/and new filter...I put it together enough to start it with out torq converter connected........(No vibration)....Then i bolted torq verter back up....(Still no vibration)......So i installled all the belts and replace a cv boot ..Lowered the car and took for a drive and still ..(No vibration)....So i ask myself...What and where did the vibration go....And what caused it....Am i happy it's gone...Yes....Am i bothered i didn't do crap that should have fixed it, Of course.....I would have like to knowN what fixed this issue....Grrr....I didn't even get to change the main crank pulley ,Vibration was gone before i got that far......Hummmm i am puzzled... Tony

92 Prizm 5spd transmission problem

Showing 2 out of 12 Posts | Show 10 Hidden Posts
Question From Dale jr on 92 Prizm 5spd transmission problem

I have a problem with my 92 geo prizm 5spd manual, I could use some advice from someone knowledgeble about manuals. Thanks in advance for any light yall could shed. Ok it goes like this:

1. DURING cranking, in Neutral,(I bypassed clutch start switch long ago) the car races forward as if in gear and it will only stop rolling if I push in the clutch. Possibly Internally stuck in gear? How do u fix that?

2. My car is parked in the driveway on an incline without E-brake on and it wont roll backwards, I cant even push her down the hill??? Only when I push in the clutch will it move. Stuck in gear? But which gear?

3. And lastly, with the car off I can shift into every gear fine except the shifter will just barely seat into first.

I dont know jack, but Based on my limited knowledge this indicates to me the clutch is doing its job and the tranny is stuck in a gear, maybe internally. Is it possible, and how do I get it out of gear?
Additional info: 150k miles, 1.6 4afe toyota motor. clutch fluid is level and I bled the slave cylinder, no help, I put a new clutch assembly on 2000 miles ago. A-ok until now. Problem started after a burnout, tranny was about half full on gear oil when this happened due to leaky axle seal. I need to know if the tranny is shot so I can hold on to my$ and go pull another one, or if this is a clutch,fork,TOB, etc.issue. Thanks.


Response From Dale jr

Yep yep so im gonna do the swap. The pick n pull is doing 50% off this weekend. Ive done auto swaps a hundred times, nothing to it, but, really this job is kind of intimidating. How difficult is it in comparison?

Response From Sidom
Top Rated Answer

Those aren't too bad to do. Having a rack would make it nice, working on your back kinda sux....

This is a frt wheel drive, so the engine will need to be supported before the tranny is removed. OTC makes a real nice engine support for a couple of bills. I've seen guys use a couple of 2x4s going across both strut towers. I have a 4' water pipe I use as a cheater bar that I use to use before I got an engine support and that worked real well...
The main thing is,,,,, whatever is used,, is safe & secure.....That it's not going to go anywhere,,, because besides one frt mount, this is what will be supporting your engine...... I would really steer away from a floor jack under the oil pan.......I've seen that done as well but really don't like that setup....but that's just me......

Your Geo does have a Toyota drive train in it but I can't say for certain what is interchangeable & what isn't.....Most wrecking yards have interchange manuals and could tell you........I can't say for pick & pulls in your area but around here they don't have them, all the regular ones do though......... Hell here they won't even tell you if they have year & model you are looking for.....They want their $2 so you have to go look for yourself..........

Response From Dale jr

Oh and I heard corollas have the same trannys as geos. True? And what years will fit my 92 Geo motor? Thanks fellas

Response From Hammer Time

Maybe his user name says it all......LOL

Response From Sidom

Problem started after a burnout, tranny was about half full on gear oil when this happened due to leaky axle seal. I'm not quite clear on this statement...... The tranny got very hot due to low oil or you were spinning your tires?

Response From Dale jr

Ok to clarify, I burned out skipped first, hit second, third, fourth, neutral at stop sign, burn out again, and idont remember what gear I was in when it stuck in gear, but the gear shift isnt stuck, hence I dont know what gear its in. Anyway, I got out and checked fluid, and it had 1 qt. Should have 2. I knew I had a leak and I should have fixed it. Im an idiot. Live and learn.

Response From Sidom

Been there & done that.........It happens........The one plus in this, if you take it on & fix it you'll be getting some valuable experience....

Just by skimming your post, it really sounds like you have an internal problem. I'm not sure if this is driveable or not, really doesn't sound like it is.....

What I've seen with manuals that get jammed before. If you put it into another gear beside the jammed one, it usually binds & won't move. If you put it in to the jammed gear position, it will move or move with some noise...

You definitely want to make sure it isn't a linkage problem, but once that's confirmed, the quickest & cheapest solution would probably be a used tranny....

Response From Sidom


Maybe his user name says it all......LOL



Was thinking the same........Kinda sounds like he may of blew this one up....

Response From Dale jr

Hi thanks for the imput, so when you say "manipulate the linkage", could you please explain to me what to do here? Appreciate it.

Response From Hammer Time

Go right to the levers at the transmission and see if you can shift it into neutral there.. You can observe the shift levers as someone tries to shift it from inside to see what the problem might be.

Response From Hammer Time

Sounds like you already have the right idea. The trans is stuck in gear. You can try manipulating the linkage to get it into neutral but be very carful if the car is not parked on level ground.

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