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Im with Dan, I dont have much experience with Toyota clusters, but most clusters use a little stepper motor for the guages, and they are pretty fragile. Have had to replace stepper motors on some gm clusters, they start to move less and less smoothly until they stick at certain positions. That would be my hunch, but have to do some diagnostics before condemning anything.

Wow! Just got off the phone with Toyota, they want 350 for a new Speedometer. 109 to test the old one and they want it installed in the truck to test it which tells me that they are prolly just gonna check the engine codes then try to charge me for r&r and then a new $350.00 speedo.
no thanks toyota, Ill pass. If I could afford that kind of expense I wouldnt be drving a 2004 Toyota. :)


It occurs to me that the odometer is moving but may not be true to the actual speed I am travelling but rather to the displayed speed. If I check it on the interstate, what conclusions can I draw from an odometer that is inaccurate verses one that is working properly?
I am hoping that the odometer correctly marks a mile and I would then assume that is proof that the speedometer motor is broken?
What do you guys think?

If the images in the forum are too small to read all you have to do is save it to your computer and then you can enlarge it as big as you want on your own computer. The forum page just isn't large enough to blow diagrams up that big.

I have about decided to get a used cluster to see if it fixes my problem. I hoped to be able to test first, and then replace but it appears that the general consensus is that the motor is bad. I will prolly run the odometer check test I mentioned but not sure that I will change the next step regardless of the outcome.

Internet searches for used parts turn up the typical 1/2 of new cost (about 150) price. Local yards don't have it. I have called a local yard with the goal of finding one that is of the same vintage but on a different model Toyota. My thinking is that it is unlikely that Toyota venders made more than one motor for any given year. They likely kept the same motor for a number of years.

I asked the local yard if they had a 2004 Toyota and when he asked for the model, I replied "any" and then clued him on to my intentions.

Given that I am off the reservation, and prolly to keep me from asking for returns, he priced a cluster at 75 dollars. I will pull the part myself which also provides some savings but also allows me to inspect the motor prior to purchase and make a spot decision.

Jim

Not just any cluster will work. Also you could be throwing money away and then still need the dealer to diagnose the problem. Up to you though.

You misunderstand....I intend to replace the stepper motor in my cluster with one form the junkyard.


Again, the idea is that the part (the stepper motor) is likely to be generic. Much like seat belts, radios, rear view mirrors, etc. the stepper motor is probably the same in every instrument cluster Toyota sold that year and maybe several before and after. Case in point, the same cluster was put in the Tacoma from 2000-2004. Not much of a stretch to think that some of the internal parts are shared among different models.


I will also have an opportunity to compare them prior to purchase.

I thought you were replacing the whole cluster, but same still applies about putting in parts without diagnosing the problem. Also, not sure that stepper motor is removable or not. Could be tricky if it is, and risk damaging components in the cluster if done improperly. Your money though, not mine.

While your comments are helpful, I have been attempting to do just that.........Diagnose the problem prior to changing parts. If you have a way to test the motor, I am all ears.


No one else has suggested that there was a way to do this or even indicated what type of voltages one could expect. I did ask exactly that.


I assume that none have given this advice because the typical shop experience would be to diagnose the cluster and replace it. Possibly to replace the entire assembly for the speedo but as previously mentioned, I have had the motor out of the cluster and inspected it.


Jim

You are 100% right; most times we here in the shop diagnose that the cluster is at fault and either replace it or send it out for repair. I have looked myself trying to find repair specs and procedures for clusters; but they are not easily found.
Most of the automotive electronic repair facilities that are local to me; admit that they had to learn the hard way and dove into these things with trial and error. Once they have the info they need to do these repairs, they become very tight lipped with it.

Dan.

Talking about pulse per mile; does your truck have cruise control; if so does it still work?
If it does that would tell us that the Speed sensor is sending a signal, the ECM (computer) is deciphering it and sending out the signal other units need.; speedo & cruise.

Dan.

wow that's an excellent observation! I had not thought to ask, my son drives the truck.
He confirmed that cruise control works perfectly!
Armed with the knowledge that the stepper motor is almost assuredly the culprit, I think I may take it apart a little further in an attempt to repair it.
Junkyard part if all else fails.
THanks for your insightful comments Dan!!!! I will repost when the speedo is fixed.
Jim

I see what he's doing and if it is the stepper then his logic is sound.

I used the stepper motor and logic board out of an Acura Integra for the speedo guts in my 50 Chev; when I installed the Gen III motor and electronics. The Integra uses the same pulse per mile as GM did.
Worked pretty good the seedo face looks 1950 with the electronics of a 2002 integra.

So yea most times parts can be swapped around without to much agony. LOL

Dan

I haven't had much to do with Toyota instrument clusters; but the stepper motor that moves the speedo needle may not have liked being turn on its head?
With you saying it moves and stick sometimes, it's possible some form of dirt got into the motor and is holding it still?
Carefully take it apart and clean any debris with a can of compressed air, that's used for cleaning keyboards and computers boards.
If that doesn't fix it, I would take it to an automotive electronics repair facility and have them test the motors for you.

Dan.

Thanks for the quick reply.
The symptoms I mentioned are not intermittent. It jumps quickly to 40mph EVERY time I take off. It never provides an accurate reading.
I appreciate your input and will take the cluster back out and attempt to clean it like you described.


I wonder if there are tests that I can perform on the cluster to determine if it is good or to see if the sending unit that provides the voltage to run it (I assume its using a dc voltage to determine speed) is operating properly?
I have a fancy voltmeter but no diagram or knowledge of the loop to accompany it. lol
Jim

I would imagine that a dedicated Toyota scan tool would have the ability to perform a gauge sweep. That would tell you whether the stepper motor was functioning properly.
If your other gauges are working then it is not likely a power feed into the cluster.



Dan.

I have just finished removing and inspecting the instrument cluster/ speedometer motor. I didn't find any debris in it and found that it was very clean overall inside the entire space.


Are there any other ideas about next steps? Specifically, I am looking for things that I can try on my own.


Thanks in advance,
Jim

I couldn't read the wiring diagram you pasted but found another

No live links allowed

Mine has a tachometer which is working. It looks like it has a separate power source from the speedometer?
Im guessing that it may be possible for there to be a power supply problem that is confined to the speedo?

Even if you were to save the diagram to a folder and then print it, you weren't able to read it?
Just asking because I don't want to be bother posting diagrams that are useless.

Dan.

Dan - Shows and printed fair on lousy printer low on ink for me?? Tom

I know some of us don't like large images; which expands the width of the thread page; but if that's what's needed I guess I'm going to piss a few regulars off. LOL

Dan.

IDK what to do. If the crap I have (15" Laptop) can see it with my eyes (Arggh) then it should print. OK - have had servers that shrunk things by bytes or pixels without me wanting or current mess can be messed with but no better than the original.
Some or now perhaps most folks are using things the size of cell phones or who knows what? How the heck can anyone know once anything is in the cloud out there?
If something needs to go off screen a bit it's fine but is harder for all script for that thread if way too wide. That's just my view and don't know if I could adjust that for just this view? Doubt it for this thing.
For now if you have a necessary diagram I'd post it and let the viewer figure it out. YOURS can work - that much I know - Tom
PS: Now speak to my sister about sending baby pics larger than a highway billboard to view!

TO the question of visibility, I am able to print and see better. I am also able to zoom in the entire internet explorer window by holding the "Ctrl" button and toggling the +/- keys. The image is blurry on my 17" screen and I use a high resolution setting which exasperates the issue.


I am not aware of the odometer or trip gauge working but I will verify asap and report back.


If you could, take a minute to explain to me how you can determine power sources from the diagram you posted.


I agree with Tom, I also speculate that this has nothing to do with the bulbs. Merely that my tampering with the cluster caused the failure.


No KPH button on this vehicle but the symptoms aren't an exact fit for that. When Im accelerating, by the time I hit 5mph, the speedo says 40.
I wonder if the speed position motor has a test procedure out there somewhere? From your comments, it sounds like that must be the culprit.

Send the link of the thread to another device if needed - may help.


My thoughts and no definite clue is what might Toyota have done such that you don't just take a cluster that presumably included the odometer OUT and swap it with one with lower KMs or Miles? Truth is IDK? Some assorted things meant you broke a clip or some sleazy sellers would turn back cable speedometers with a dang drill and doubt this had a physical ODOMETER run by cable plus most don't go backwards since way before this.


I just don't know if this could involve a trap to prevent messing with actual distance the vehicle has accumulated? T

The readout of the mileage is a digital display. My idea of it is that the value isn't even in the cluster but rather stored in the computer. I have no real knowledge of how it works, that's just my guess.


I could take it to Toyota but I'm pretty cheap when it comes to that. Most often, I take the approach that I would prefer to spend 250 dollars replacing likely candidates than to spend 200 for a Toyota tech to troubleshoot. They are probably good at their craft but there's no guarantee that they will find the problem.
Jim

It's not just the "craft" it's the equipment and total info, diagrams at hand, updates if applicable. It failed when taking it out and again IDK on this what doing that could have caused never mind bumping something or breaking something that didn't like it??


T

It looks like there is about 4 different power sources for different things in the cluster but only one 10a source for the gauges....

If all the gauges are working correctly except the speedo, I wouldn't think it would be a power problem....If all the connections are tight, I think Dan is right that the stepper motor was damaged when the cluster was out...

ussessex: Out of the blue questions...... Does the odometer and or trip odometer work properly? This all happened basically from being unplugged it seems that's the issue not so much bulbs.


IDK for sure but if miles are not working or still reading what it had for mileage. If not it might be thinking it's been tampered with the alter real mileage. Just a wild guess?? Tom

Well from your description, I doubt this is the problem but I've run into it a few time with inaccurate speedos.....Some cars have buttons that will switch the speedo from MPHs to KPHs and the button accidently gets pushed.....but that is an overall inaccuracy (more obvious at higher speeds), sounds like yours is jumping & stopping...but it wouldn't hurt to look...

As Dan has already said if the other gauges are working properly then it would be isolated to the speedo and you would need some special tools to diag the problem...If you can find a shop that will check the cluster for you on the bench, then you can save some labor there....