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Prenco
1997 Volkswagen EuroVan Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-37A9BB5    W0133-1618171  New

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Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
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1997 - Volkswagen EuroVan
Beru
2000 Volkswagen Golf Spark Plug Wire Set Beru

P311-59C1FB1    W0133-1618787  New

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Beru Spark Plug Wire Set
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2000 - Volkswagen Golf
Prenco
2000 Volkswagen Golf Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-109D01C    W0133-1618787  New

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$58.50
Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
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Brand: Prenco
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2000 - Volkswagen Golf
Beru
2001 Volkswagen Golf Spark Plug Wire Set Beru

P311-59C1FB1    W0133-1618787  New

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$42.21
Beru Spark Plug Wire Set
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • Eng: -AEG ENG
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2001 - Volkswagen Golf
Prenco
2001 Volkswagen Golf Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-109D01C    W0133-1618787  New

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Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • Eng: -AEG ENG
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2001 - Volkswagen Golf
Karlyn
2002 Volkswagen Beetle Spark Plug Wire Set Karlyn

P311-5DAEB46    W0133-1619063  New

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Karlyn Spark Plug Wire Set
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2002 - Volkswagen Beetle
Prenco
2002 Volkswagen Beetle Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-1D24CD9    W0133-1619063  New

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2002 - Volkswagen Beetle
Karlyn
1998 Volkswagen Passat Spark Plug Wire Set Karlyn

P311-3842710    W0133-1603974  New

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Karlyn Spark Plug Wire Set
  • Complete Ignition Wire for Complete Engine.
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1998 - Volkswagen Passat
Prenco
1998 Volkswagen Passat Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-3C966F1    W0133-1603974  New

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Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
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  • - 6 Wire Set
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1998 - Volkswagen Passat
Karlyn
1999 Volkswagen Golf Spark Plug Wire Set Karlyn

P311-139A65A    W0133-1787014  New

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$114.35
Karlyn Spark Plug Wire Set
  • Genuine OE VW Mexico wires. When used w/a Loom wires may be too short. Wire length may be slightly longer than individual wires originally supplied on the vehicle. VW does not offer complete wire sets for these applications.
Brand: Karlyn
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1999 - Volkswagen Golf
Prenco
1990 Volkswagen Passat Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-2A0A375    W0133-1622866  New

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$62.16
Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • with Loom
Brand: Prenco
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1990 - Volkswagen Passat
Prenco
1993 Volkswagen Corrado Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-139DC9C    W0133-1612748  New

Qty:
$77.01
Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • Wire set includes coil wire, later model applications with coil packs, do not require the use of the coil wire.
Brand: Prenco
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1993 - Volkswagen Corrado
Karlyn
1993 Volkswagen Corrado Spark Plug Wire Set Karlyn

P311-3769142    W0133-1612748  New

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$88.11
Karlyn Spark Plug Wire Set
  • Wire set includes coil wire, later model applications with coil packs, do not require the use of the coil wire.
  • - Red / With Coil Wire
Brand: Karlyn
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1993 - Volkswagen Corrado
Prenco
1994 Volkswagen Corrado Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-139DC9C    W0133-1612748  New

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$77.01
Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
Brand: Prenco
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1994 - Volkswagen Corrado
Prenco
1995 Volkswagen EuroVan Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-26E5FB7    W0133-1617584  New

Qty:
$59.75
Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • with 720mm Coil Wire
  • - With 720mm Coil Wire
Brand: Prenco
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1995 - Volkswagen EuroVan
Prenco
1960 Volkswagen Beetle Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-4B1A32A    W0133-1836414  New

Qty:
$26.67
Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
Brand: Prenco
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1960 - Volkswagen Beetle
Bosch
1990 Volkswagen Corrado Spark Plug Wire Set Bosch

P311-0C947CE    W0133-1621636  New

Qty:
$68.95
Bosch Spark Plug Wire Set
  • For Use with Distributor caps w/o Pin type connectors
  • - Non OE Plug In Cap
Brand: Bosch
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1990 - Volkswagen Corrado
Bosch
1985 Volkswagen Cabriolet Spark Plug Wire Set Bosch

P311-0C947CE    W0133-1621636  New

Qty:
$68.95
Bosch Spark Plug Wire Set
  • Eng: 140 001-, For Use with Distributor caps w/o Pin type connectors
  • - Non OE Plug In Cap
Brand: Bosch
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1985 - Volkswagen Cabriolet
Bosch
1987 Volkswagen Scirocco Spark Plug Wire Set Bosch

P311-0C947CE    W0133-1621636  New

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$68.95
Bosch Spark Plug Wire Set
  • Chas: 240 001-, For Use with Distributor caps w/o Pin type connectors
  • - Non OE Plug In Cap
Brand: Bosch
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1987 - Volkswagen Scirocco
Prenco
1995 Volkswagen Cabrio Spark Plug Wire Set Prenco

P311-2E4CE46    W0133-1615999  New

Qty:
$48.66
Prenco Spark Plug Wire Set
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • - W/ Coil Wire and Loom
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1995 - Volkswagen Cabrio

Latest Volkswagen Repair and Spark Plug Wires Installation Advice

CarJunky AutoAdvice

Not sure what I missed

Showing 4 out of 4 Posts
Question From Trowa346 on Not sure what I missed

2002
volkswagen
gulf
2.0
106k

before the car wouldn't start anymore it would randomly die. Now it won't stay running. will turn over like it wants to start. Error code I got was P0321

I've replaced my spark plugs, wires and coil pack. Car starts but runs real rough. Not like it was before when I had the problem. Black smokecomes the tail pipe. some white in the front. Not sure if there is something I'm or missed.

Response From Trowa346

Found out what it was after fixing what I did and I was getting ready to what you said and noticed my fuel injector was loose. After I fixed that everything runs perfect. Thank you for your time.

Response From Discretesignals Top Rated Answer

That's interesting. If you have any problems, let us know.

Response From Discretesignals

That code is for the engine rpm speed sensor (crankshaft position sensor). The sensor is a hall effect sensor which produces a digital square wave signal to be used by the ECU to determine the crankshaft's speed and position. Without the signal or proper signal from the sensor, the ECU will not be able to fire the ignition coils and injectors, therefore the engine won't start or stall if the engine is running.

The ideal way to check the sensor's output is by using an oscilloscope. If there is no signal or the signal is corrupted, you will be able to tell watching the waveform signal while cranking the engine.

You can also ohm the sensor out by disconnecting the sensor and checking resistance on pins 2 and 3 in the sensor's connector . The resistance should be around 730-1000 ohms. Also check for shorts between pins 1 and 2 and pins 1 and 3. If anything is out of spec, the sensor is faulty.

For more information on hall effect sensors watch this video:


Old Car Performance/Efficiency Suggestions

Showing 3 out of 33 Posts | Show 30 Hidden Posts
Question From RoboDisko on Old Car Performance/Efficiency Suggestions

Hey, I've got an old car. 84 Volkswagen Jetta (1.8L engine) with 237,000 on it. I got it fairly recently from a friend, and I was wondering what some of the things I should do to it to increase performance and efficiency are.

So far I have taken my injectors off and cleaned them, and lightly cleaned the throttle body. I think I messed up one of the injectors in the process, and it seems to run rougher, and the injector seals are hard as rocks, so I was planning on pulling some newer style but compatible injectors, with new O rings, from a jetta at the junk yard, after ultrasonically cleaning them. I am also planning on pulling the cat off, because a 30 year old cat with no maintenance probably isn't helping anyone. I am also considering changing the manual transmission oil, because the current stuff might be stock.

I also think i messed up the fuel to air ratio. When I got it, the exhaust smelled like fuel, so I adjusted the fuel to air ratio until the exhaust no longer smelled like fuel. I think the reason it smelled like fuel is because, as I recently noticed, it does have an oxy sensor, but it wasn't plugged in, so I think it was making the mixture as rich as the system was able to automatically adjust for. Keep in mind this has a mechanical fuel injection system. (K-Jetronic I'm pretty sure, google it)

Some other thoughts on it. It doesn't idle very smoothly. Sometimes it idles smoother than other times, but in general I think it should be smoother. Also, I've noticed that the difference between half-throttle and full-throttle is miniscule. Not sure what would cause that. I also know the alignment isn't right, because my front left tire is almost bald while the other tires are in good condition.

My friend that I got the car from said he was getting 30+ mpg from it. So far, on my first fill up I got about 18 mpg, (I had some major timing issues that I think had a big impact on that) and 24 mpg on my second fill up. Its going up :), but I hope to be able to touch the 40's with this car :/. Also, when he had this car, he usually drove 80 miles at a time, and when I use it, I rarely go more than a mile, so the engine is still cold when I get there most of the time.

Ok, I know this car has problems, but what are my priorities in fixing it? Anything I haven't mentioned that I need to look at? Anything else?

Response From Hammer Time

84 Volkswagen Jetta (1.8L engine) with 237,000 on it

The word performance should never leave your lips when you are talking about this car. With that kind of mileage, if you abuse this engine in any way you are going to end up with nothing but a big boat anchor with no engine. You may get a few more miles if you baby it and maintain it well but if you beat on it, it's going to die.

Response From RoboDisko

I think I know someone that has a compression checker, I will see if I can borrow it and check.

Also, a piece of metal is a piece of metal, in my opinion. I don't think that just because an engine has provided enough energy to travel 237k miles means that it is a baby. However if the cylinder walls are oval, then yea... Let's stick with the compression check and then go from there.

Also, I have a friend that own a junkyard with a few more of the same engine. If this engine goes boom, I've got another one :) although that doesn't sound like fun :(

I should mention that I am more interested in efficiency than performance.

Response From Hammer Time

All the bearings in that engine have 237K on them and there can't be much left. The oil pump has done more work than it's designed to and you can say that engine is on borrowed time from here on.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Whole car is 30 years old - every last moving anything. Plastics and rubber things all over go brittle, springs, seating hinges latches even wiring insulation and connections and so on. Point is it's not just a brick of metal, T

Response From RoboDisko

Fair enough. And now that you mention it, my friend did give me this car for free because it had broke down, the problem being that the ground for the ignition module had come off of the battery. But I can repair and replace wires as they go. Reliability isn't a big deal anyways, since I rarely go more than 5 miles from my house, and I'm not afraid to try to fix it on the side of the road.

Still trying to get access to a compression checker...

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Compression tester:
/
In stock item almost anywhere! Probably rentable but only about $25 bucks.


Totally not adverse to older vehicles. Just know to go thru check and fix certain things pro-actively or declare one not practical any more for the time it would take or raw expense of parts to make one legally useful for public roads,


T

Response From RoboDisko

FINALLY GOT A COMPRESSION TESTER!
Like a month later I know :)
Someone I know owns a mechanic shop and he loaned me his. He warned me that it was damaged but usable. Without anything connected it 0'd at 25 psi. So I think the readings are at least 25 psi higher than real. It also didn't hold the pressure, so I had someone crank it while I recorded the peak value. The values I recorded are:
1. 177 psi +-3
2. 177 psi +-3
3. 177 psi +-3
4. 177 psi +-3
They were all darn close so I just rounded to the same number. They were all between 175 and 180 though.
Because the meter 0'd at 25 psi and because it is well used, I think subtracting 30 psi from each would get us a more accurate number.
I interpret the data as all cylinders with 147 psi +-8.

From what I have read that is a good psi and so I shouldn't have any compression-related issues, although I am open to other opinions. So, what can I do that is relatively easy and relatively cheap that would help the engine run better. I am already working on the fuel system. I know it is running lean, and I have ordered a new oxygen sensor/injector O rings/fuel filter and I will set the combustion ratio when they come. What else?

Response From Tom Greenleaf

You really are looking for them all to be close to each other, 4th bounce up while cranking and it locks that pressure as cylinder would leak down. Then small squirt of oil to see the difference that makes especially if one is off from another and so on.


Accuracy of the actual PSI# I wouldn't be way too worried about. A real nice gauge would have a screw to set to zero.


You can also get a good clue from a vacuum gauge on crude mechanical engine wear - all this to know what you are dealing with.


You mentioned you seek "efficiency" and it's prior long run at a time use is naturally going to do better than short runs not even warmed up.


Think: World's largest cruise ship and most fuel efficient moped are both getting ZERO MPGs sitting still and it goes from there. Just make it to run as well as possible and you are there and there are no magic tricks short of pushing it or towing it to alter efficiency much.


It's sarcastic but just make all your trips downhill with a tailwind roundtrip helps


T

Response From RoboDisko

All of the PSI values I measured were very close. Also, the gauge I was using leakes and you have to be watching it while you crank.

Anyways, after I measured all of the PSI values on Monday, I put the spark plugs back on and parked it. The next day I noticed that something was wrong. When I rev the engine it sounded like 1 or 2 of the cylinders wasn't firing right or at all. And when you give it some fuel to accelerate, there seemed to be a 1-2 second delay before I got most of the acceleration force. For example, I shift into 3rd and give it some fuel. It slowly accelerates for 2 seconds, and then I can feel a small jerk as it starts to accelerate much more quickly. Let go of the fuel and shift to 4th, and this happens again. In addition, I have killed the engine several times lately because it doesn't have the power it used to have.

On Tuesday I thought, "No big deal. I probably forgot to plug a spark plug wire in or messed up the gap." Well today I pulled my plugs, cleaned them, checked the gap, and re-tested the compression. The #2 plug was very black like it was running very rich. I didn't pay much attention to the plugs on Monday, but I don't think it was that black. As for the compression:
1. 150 PSI!!!!!!!!! This was 180 on Monday, what happened?!
2. 180 PSI
3. 180 PSI
4. 176 PSI
#1 cylinder with a cap of oil in it: 160 PSI
FYI firing order is 1-3-4-2
Ok, my car was running well on Monday, and now it sounds and runs like a trash can. What could have messed the #1 cylinder up so much? What should I check? What should I do?
The guy that loaned my the compression tester gave 2 suggestions. He said he thought it was running rich (I'm still planning on tuning the f/a ratio, but I thought it was running lean), and the valve springs. I believe he owns a mechanic shop, but I didn't give him as much description as I have given you.

Video of the issues my car is having:

Response From Tom Greenleaf Top Rated Answer

OK - Vid only showed that it sounds like crap as you sad.


Your tester is in question so that ends most of that. I did show what looks like a single putt out tail pipe as if one cylinder is not firing properly. If that cylinder is cold, fuel washed compression would be off or something alarming.


Just in handling plugs and wires could have harmed them?


I'll try to paste a basic idea of how to take compression or if it doesn't show right remove it. Engine somewhat warm. Plugs out, marked for correct location with wires. Spark and fuel disabled.


Crank and watch pulse increase compression #. By 4th rev it should be about what it can do.


KEY IS EVEN MORE THE TEST THAN THE exact # you get. Oil test will seal lower end things more like rings, cylinder wall wear mostly if dramatically changed by that more inspection to find out. You didn't have dramatic so forget that. Wet test will not change valve issues.


In your case engine is running so lousy in that vid that I think test results are inconclusive. Might behave if it was stone cold and move on to other reasons if compression is within 10% or so.


That black plug is telling of problem there. Wire, plug itself, over fueled etc. Heat clean and swap it for another or replace with new plugs OE for an engine. Leave tricks for the last run to the salvage yard.


It's open book on this. IMO a fussy and old car with plenty of miles. Right now compression is in question and something else my be the cause as said fuel or ignition. IDK why two test showed so differently except for the known leaky tester? Guess you could move on to a leak-down test on that cylinder?
---------------------------------------


I just said most of this but just some fool thing I found out there on compression test. I don't agree with it totally but the idea there....................

Difficulty: EasyTime Required: 30 MinutesHere's How:

  1. Let the car run for about 5 minutes, you always want to compression test a warm engine for best results.
  2. Disable the ignition system so the engine does not fire up during testing.
  3. Label the spark plug wire with the same number as you label the spark plug hole, 1 through 6 for example, before removing all the spark plugs.
  4. Insert the compression tester into the cylinder spark plug hole labeled #1 and tighten by hand only.
  5. Have your helper crank the car’s engine 7 to 10 times continuously to obtain the most accurate reading on the compression gauge.
  6. Record the reading for the cylinder labeled #1 and remove the tester from the spark plug hole.
  7. Make sure that the pressure gauge returns to zero before continuing testing and recording the rest of the cylinders while the engine is still warm.
  8. Clean and replace the spark plugs with the correct spark plug wire.
Tips:
  1. The compression test is not so much about the absolute level of compression; it is the difference in the compression between each of the cylinders. If all cylinder readings are within 10 percent of each other, your engine compression is considered optimal. However, if any of the cylinders compression vary 10% or more from each other, a problem may exist and further inspection of the engine should be completed.





+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


T

Response From RoboDisko

Those steps you posted are almost exactly what I did. I feel fairly confident that the PSI values I got both times are fairly accurate. I had double checked #1 cylinder on Monday, and I triple checked it today, with consistent results. Right now I'm not so concerned about cylinder #2 because I am about to redo f/a ratio anyways. But what should I do about cylinder #1?

Response From Tom Greenleaf

I plain don't know what you mean by adjusting air to fuel ratio on this or if so if you can target ONE cylinder.


If #1 is really off it will effect the overall show. At TDC on that one apply pressure and see where it leaks. Let's rule out plain wear on this thing.


If you can see if wires will fit another and the problem follows checking misfiring at a cylinder or cancel them one at a time to focus in better. RPM if just one will stay the same if one is dead and canceling that one doesn't change anything. A good one on a 4 cylinder with one bad cylinder would stall out no doubt.


* If cancelling a cylinder by taking off plug wire ground it as if just left hanging that spark might seek other routes confusing that test. This is crude basic testing. Any wires and plugs don't like being fussed with, dropped, pulled wrong or even good stuff will be harmed messing up diagnosing.


Keep trying and keep the investment low IMO. Rent, borrow and swap known good things within that car to a known bad and follow is cheaper than tossing all for a maybe on things.


For finding random or one cylinder not behaving without wild tools you can feel the pulse at tail pipe and usually tell just don't burn yourself please, use a rag if you do that.


I don't think converter is the issue on this for just this right now.


For whenever or soon if still not nailing it, a vacuum gauge test can be informative also. Takes stuff/tools even for the most basic things,


T


#1 compression funky and #2 with fuel fouling apparently

Response From RoboDisko

Interestingly enough, the k-jetronic lambada fuel system that my car is equipped with allows you to adjust the fuel going to each cylinder. However, some further tests seem to eliminate that cylinder #2 is getting excessive fuel in comparison to the other cylinders. Here is what I did.
I pulled the spark plug wires one at a time, and then two at a time, and then three at a time, and then four at a time. (I'm just kidding about the four at a time) Anyways, with only 1 cylinder firing, I could keep the engine running on each of the cylinders except #2. For the most part, cylinder #2 didn't fire at all. Occasionally, it fired a few times sequentially, and then stopped firing again. Cylinders #3 and #4 seem to be running absolutely fine.

I KNOW that cylinder 1 leaks, because I put one of the compression checker tubes on that didn't have a 1-way valve, blew into it, and I could feel the air go into the cylinder. I turned the engine several times to make sure it wasn't just on the intake or exhaust stroke. I did this on the other 3, and when they weren't on intake or exhaust, they felt air-tight.

I am planning on hooking a compressor to the #1 cylinder using the compression gauge adapter without a 1-way valve, and then listening and feeling for the leak location. I am also planning on taking the #2 spark plug out and seeing if it fires when not in the cylinder.

I would rather deal with the compression issues on cylinder #1 before tackling the combustion issues on cylinder #2. Or maybe one of the gaskets between the cylinders developed a leak recently? Anyways, I am open for any suggestions at this point.

I think it is worth mentioning that I used a flash light on a spark plug hole to see inside the cylinder, and it looked really dirty. Like, there were spots that one could see the metal, but most of the surface area was covered by black stuff, presumably carbon. It was like this in both cylinder #1 and #2, I didn't look into #3 or #4. Is that normal? Does that affect performance? How would one go about cleaning carbon in the combustion chambers?

Response From RoboDisko

Someone please reply to this and say "random" because I got into my car to pick up the compression gauge again, and it was running great again! All I did was take the #2 fuel injector out and put it back in... Anyways, on further inspection, it seems than #2 is firing normally again. I was hoping that #1 also was up to 180 PSI, but it was not, still at 150 PSI. After that, I hooked up the 1-way valve-less adapter to the cylinder, and my compressor to the adapter. After establishing that anything over 40 PSI was enough to turn the engine until it hit an intake or exhaust stroke even when in 5th gear, I discovered that it seemed that the air was leaking into the cam-case. (I don't know if that is the technical term) When I took off the oil lid thing, which is directly above the cam and above #1, I can hear a rather strong hiss, and I think I can feel some air come out.

I could be wrong, but I think there is a leak on the top of the #1 combustion chamber. There are 2 reasons I think this: the above mentioned compressor test, and the fact that putting oil in the cylinder did not have a significant affect on the compression PSI. I also don't think it is the valves because I couldn't hear or feel air comping out of the intake or exhaust. What part of the engine would allow pressure to leak out of the top of the combustion chamber? What other things should I try?

Response From RoboDisko

Ok, I feel like I am on a wild goose chase. Checked the compression again:
1. 176
2. 177
3. 175
4. 178

Also, I put the compressor to all 4 of the cylinders, and they all made the same mild hissing sound coming out of the oil pour hole. So maybe the head gasket is a bit worn? I'm just guessing here, you guys are the pros. I have a spring break coming up and I wouldn't mind getting in over my head in an engine repair like a head gasket. But would it help? Or am I just crazy?

Response From Tom Greenleaf

OK: Oil test remains unproven. Guess to be verified is that #1 needs better leak-down test but might be intermittent which is troublesome by itself but a gasket could allow it's compression into no useful place in cylinder #2 throwing off proper firing and complicating even that one getting correct useable spark, fouled plug from fuel or if metal shaving ground out plug that ends that. Consider cylinder wash and more.


High miles for this engine let alone age. May need to pull head to get a good look to see it this engine is even worth your time!


T

Response From RoboDisko

Ok what I am thinking is I can pull off the head and do a partial overhaul. Clean the cylinders, replace head gasket and header gaskets, valve gasket, replace the valve springs if then need it, clean up valves and camshaft, ultrasonic clean anything that fits in my little ultrasonic cleaner, and put it all back together. Would that be worth my time? Is that way over my skill level? Can I get a time estimate, cost estimate, steps and some advice?

As a side note, I decided it was time to patch some exhaust leaks, and it quickly escalated to my exhaust getting cut right behind the cat. I'm planning on bypassing the cat, cleaning the exhaust pipe, and patching the holes, but it sure is fun to drive without a muffler. I knew it was going to be loud, but it is louder than I expected. There is a kid at my school that probably has $50K into his truck, probably several thousand just in his exhaust, loves blowing black smoke clouds. Anyways, I was passing him opposite direction and I pushed the clutch in and revved it, and his jaw dropped. It was awesome. Especially the fact that I have put less than $150 into my car, $110 of that was the stereo, and the car itself was free.

I know I am going to have to put the muffler back on if i don't want to get tickets, but it is sure fun to drive without it.

Anyways I would like several opinions on if the partial overhaul I proposed would be practical.

Response From Hammer Time

I'm planning on bypassing the cat,

You do realize that is against Federal law and carries a fine up to $25,000?

Response From RoboDisko

I meant remove the cat. Yea I know it's illegal, but my dad has been running his car without the cat for over 10 years. In addition, vehicles over 25 years are exempt from emission testing, and where I live doesn't do emission testing anyways. In more addition, this cat is over 30 years old, has been through rich and lean. Do you think there is anything left?

I would be surprised if the cat is still functional at all. Just in the time I have had it, I had 1 cylinder that wasn't firing, sending a ton of unburned fuel to the cat. If it is not doing anything, and if I am not going to get caught for it, then I see no reason to leave it on. Do you?

Response From Hammer Time

None of that changes the fact that it is illegal to remove it without replacing it with a new one. I doubt you will find a shop willing to do that.

Response From RoboDisko

:) you don't know me. Half of my friends are in automated manufacturing. Plasma lasers, lasers, welders, grinders, metal benders, cnc machines, all manned by a bunch of teenagers. I know a shop that will do it for me. How do you think I took my muffler off anyways?

Also, I would really appreciate if we can get away from the morality of removing my cat and get back onto how feasible it is for me to pull the head off. Thanks.

Response From nickwarner

I think you pulling off the head is feasible. I think you having a running engine when you are done is not.

Response From Discretesignals

You shouldn't be pulling anything apart until you have absolutely isolated your problem, unless your into that sort of thing. Compression numbers look fine. You can also do a dynamic compression test on that cylinder you believe it having an issue to see if you have an engine breathing problem. A static compression test won't tell you if the exhaust valve isn't opening.

Haven't played around with any K jet fuel systems that one has, but it does have an O2 sensor. You could scew a back pressure gauge in place of the O2 sensor and measure that amount of back pressure in the exhaust before the cat to see if you have an excessive amount of restriction going on. That would save you the time and expense of removing the exhaust system.

Is this vehicle going to be your daily driver or are you wanting to turn it into a race car?

Response From RoboDisko

Daily driver race car that gets great mpg, of course!

But really, if you haven't got the contest clues, I'm 17 in high school. My high school is acrossed the street, so if my car dies it really isn't a big deal. I am currently very interested in working on my car. Spring break is next week, which would be a great time to take the head off. From what I understand, what that would entail is the following:
1. Take timing chain cover off (I think it is a chain)
2. Take timing chain off, take note of timing positions so it can be put back on properly.
3. Take valve cover off.
4. Probably some bolts and bearings holding the cam. Remove them.
5. Remove the cam.
6. Remove exhaust and intake manifolds.
7. Find head bolts and remove them.
8. Remove the head?
9. Clean all parts thoroughly.
10. Reassemble in opposite order, putting gaskets where necessary.
11. Fresh oil?
How close am I? Obviously each step is fairly large, but taking them 1 at a time can't be too hard, right?

Anyways Discretesignals , I have already used a recip saw right behind the cat, and it would take about as much time to measure back pressure as it would to simply remove the cat.

Also, this isn't the first engineering I have done. As a one man team, I went to nationals for robotics, and ranked in the upper half. I know how to build and maintain efficient mechanical things.

As for a dynamic compression test, I don't think I have any of the tools that would require. I don't know where I would find the tester, and I don't plan on buying one.

What do you guys think I should do?

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Quote"How close am I? Obviously each step is fairly large, but taking them 1 at a time can't be too hard, right?"


You don't even own a compression tester or able to borrow one that I believe yet and going to take on this? Trust me, it will be a learning experience but will never run again, even poorly.

You have to do your diagnosing before tearing into it. At best if you did a perfect job, sent head out and all fine the lower end could give up fast.

This could have cracked magor parts you can't see at all without some tests.

Soooooo, you've got essentially no investment in the thing and unless somehow this car is in exceptional shape in all other aspects just part it out before you lose your shirt. It's worth something as just metal by weight,

T

Response From RoboDisko

You have a point. I don't plan on parting out my car. As far as metal weight, this thing is one of the lighter cars on the road. I think it is under 2K lbs.

Besides that the head, what other fun mods could I do to it? I was reading about water injection, which sounded interesting.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Water injection now! Did someone lace something you ate?


You lost about $100 for a junk converter already as even dead ones are good for the metals they use. Rest of car call local salvage for what they would pay for whole vehicle delivered or if they pick it up.


A couple ways you could make some bucks would be to find a good party for St. Patrick's Day, paint some shamrocks all over it and get a baseball bat and charge $5 buck a whack at it for the fun of it.


Do what you want but you clearly are NOT in any position to make this a decent running car from the read of this thread.


It's your $$ but I'd start off the learning thing with something that at least runs well right away and work on details not something that is quite this hopeless - your call,


T

Response From RoboDisko

The car is running pretty well right now. I just would like to make it run better.

Response From Discretesignals

General rule of thumb is don't modify your daily driver. If your daily driver was running bad and had problems, you would have to diagnose and repair those problems. If this is something you drive to school or work everyday, you don't want to play around with modifying and racing it because you depend on it.

Majority of people that own race cars also have daily drivers that are bone stock and reliable. You really can't have both in one, unless you have lots of money laying around and not too concerned about breaking down or breaking things.

Being young and wanting to go fast is a normal thing for a teenager to dream about, especially with all the Fast and Furious related movies around. The reality is as you get older you start to realize things aren't cheap and your constantly paying bills, trying saving money, and working you hind off to make things meet.

I'm not trying to be a parental figure, but giving you the realities of life.

Response From RoboDisko

Although it is my daily driver, I can easily do without it, and that is why I am not afraid of taking a chance with it. My high school is acrossed the street, and the tech center (part of school) is like 1/4 mile away. I do have a bike.

I also try to be very conservative with my limited funds, and have never watch Fast and Furious movies. I just like building things.

So what are some fun mods I could do to the engine? Preferable low cost and low risk ones.

Response From RoboDisko

I just took a flash light to my cat, and it is COMPLETELY HOLLOW. No honeycomb structure AT ALL. It is simple a large hollow black area. I was hoping to get performance improvements... Do you still think removing it will help?

Response From Discretesignals

First thing you should do is run a compression check on it. Make sure the battery is fully charged, the ignition and fuel systems are disabled, and the throttle is wide open when you perform your compression test. Write down the numbers for all cylinders. Post them in here, so we can see what your dealing with.

If the engine is tired, messing around with the other things is a waste of time.

No start and distributor 84 Jetta

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Question From RoboDisko on No start and distributor 84 Jetta

A friend gave me a car after it broke. He didn't want to deal with it, so he bought a newer one. Well it's my first car, and it would be great if I could drive it. My best skills are robotic, electronics, and programming. I'm a fairly beginner mechanic, but I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.

I was told it is an 83 but the manufacturing date is January 84. Its a Volkswagen Jetta and it has around 225K miles on it. I'm pretty sure it has fuel injection, but I'm not sure which motor it has. If you need to know I can find out.

I am obviously trying to get it to work. The main problem seems to be no spark. The coil was tested by connecting and disconnecting to 12V and produced a spark, when the output wire was held very near a ground. However, the distributor doesn't seems to be properly signaling to spark as when trying to start there is no spark directly from the coil. The distributor was removed before he gave it to me and I know it's at least partially broken, and it is going to need retimed or something. I have access to oscilloscopes, but I don't know how to test it. Another seemingly relevant fact is when the engine is cranked and then released, it continues cranking for a bit. This started happening when it broke so it is probable related.

The car was driving down the road normally and completely out of the random the engine cut out and yea. It seems most likely that the issue is either the distributor or the icm.

I know when I try to explain things they tend to get jumbled and thus become hard to understand, but I hope that makes sense. What I was hoping for is to get some suggestions in what to do to it next. So, what should I try next in troubleshooting and fixing this vehicle? If I missed a detail that would come in handy to figure out what is wrong, let me know and I will do my best to answer.

Thank you for your time, I could never fix cars without you guys!

Response From Tom Greenleaf

I won't be able to follow this up with you but at a minimum find out what the heck it is. Uncertain of model year, engine size of perhaps four possible, whether it's fuel injected or not and a distributor pulled out and who knows why for now. Distributor type will matter whether it's an automatic or standard.

It cranks when key released or you seem to think so. Spark testing and how you determined no spark questionable.

For the moment at least see if rotor turns in distributor with cranking. The initial problem and still now could be ignition switch itself. 30 year old or so with some miles up there despite low per year is still up there IMO.

Find out exactly what this is at least,

T

Response From Discretesignals

Should be a 1.7L. I agree with Tom that you should make sure the rotor rotates when you crank the engine. If it doesn't, you won't have any spark.

Another thing is that when you test a coil using that type of test, it might not produce enough spark because your cut off time isn't fast enough. Your cut off time has to be under 30 microseconds. You need to do a bypass test at the igniter and the spark has to at least be able to jump a 3/4 inch gap. If you have a scope and know how to use it, you have an ace in the hole.

Response From RoboDisko

More info incoming.
Its an 84
I think its a 1.8L (The cylinder head is 026 103 373h)
I'm almost certain it is fuel injected.

The distributor has been removed and is going to need re-timed or whatever you call it when it is put back in. I'm fairly sure the rotor would rotate if the distributor was in the engine.

My coil testing showed that the coil DID produce a spark. The spark didn't jump very far at all, but that is probebly because I had a high cut off time? However, the coil isn't getting a signal. When the ignition is turned on, the coil gets 12V
The distributor is getting battery voltage on on 3 of the wires. I think this is an issue. (It's supposed to have + , ground, and signal, right?)

I got another ICU, it isn't identical but it has the same plug. It also isn't know good, it could be bad. It has the same voltage on the distributor wires as the original one. If the ICU is bad, I saw a really good deal on one that I would like to order ASAP if a new one is needed.

I tested the distributor by connecting 12V and ground to the respective pins, and monitoring voltage on the signal wire. As i turned the distributor I got a signal ranging from 0V to 1.5V. I THINK it is ok.

I have also manually grounded the signal wire for the distributor when the distributor was off, and the voltage on the coil stayed at battery.

A wiring diagram for the ignitinon would be very helpful in diagnosing it. Would any of you happen to have an ignition wiring diagram for an 84 volkswagen jetta 1.8L?

Response From Discretesignals

Check your messages.

Response From RoboDisko

Thank you for that. It seems incomplete though, where do the wires go to on the fuse/relay section? Anyways, it should help quite a bit. I don't think the fuses have been checked on it since it broke, I think it would be worthwhile to do that...

I will let you know any more info next time I work on it (tomorrow evening). If you have any comments/suggestions before then I would love to know. Also, do you think the ICU is bad?

Response From Discretesignals

The Euro track schematics are pain to read. Especially when they use alphanumeric codes to name components. Usually the top is power and the bottom is ground. The numbers and letters at the left hand corner are indicators for how the circuit is powered. The track is huge and to provide every single path would be like 40 attachments. What makes the track difficult to read unless you have practice is that every symbol, number, and letter refers to something. Almost like a legend on a map.

Does your hall sensor have power, ground, and produces a signal when you rotate the distributor. I honestly don't know which wire is what for the hall, but checking each wire should tell you what they are.

By looking at the schematic the wires going to the ICM is going to be:

Black is ignition or starting supply voltage for the coil and the ICM
Green is the ground side of the ignition coil. The ICM's transistor will ground that wire to charge the coil and remove the ground to cause the coil to fire.
Brown/white, Green/white, Red/black are going to be power, ground, and signal for the hall effect sensor that the ICM uses for position input.
Brown is going to be ground and should have less than 0.3V with the ignition turned on.
Red/black at the coil ground side splice is going to the engine controller and fuel pump controller to be used for the engine speed signal or tach.

All these checks need to be made by back probing the connector with the circuits loaded.

Response From RoboDisko Top Rated Answer

If you like reading stories, read everything. If you want to get to business, skip to the second last paragraph.

Well, had a fairly interesting evening.
Using the diagram you sent my I was doing some wire tracking. One of the wires was supposed to go to ground (wire #2 on the ICM, brown I think), I decided to do a continuity test on it. Not connected. With ignition on, still not connected. Traced the wire and found that it went right next to the negative side on the battery (It was one of those hook things, but it broke off somehow). Well, I put that back on ground, and then put the distributor back on with TDC and 1342 firing, and it started. Left it running for a bit and it idled fairly smoothly. (You know, about as smoothly as a car is going to idle that might be 13,000 past due on oil, has no timing curve, spark plugs, spark plug wires, and who knows what else)

Now, the distributor had been suspected so it had been removed, I opened it and then I couldn't figure out how to put it back together. So, I managed to get it back together without the vacuum advance thingy, and it probably wasn't right anyways. When I put it on, it idled smoothly, and I then adjusted it to the point where it got the most RPM at idle. I know I don't have a timing curve, but it seemed logical that without the vacuum advance that that timing position would be the best. And also when I say a smooth idle, it was missing quite a bit, but the rpm was pretty stable.

Ok so once I got it running good I drove it home. I only killed it twice in a row (I'm fairly new to manuals and I think the engine decided to misfire at the perfect time) but made it home fairly easy. The distance home was a few blocks so not very far. Myself and my dad decided to get some oils for our vehicles (me for mine, him for our family's 08 suburban) at walmart, (belive it or not walmart is a lot better priced than autozone) which is across our small city. Driving down there wasn't too bad, It drove fairly smooth. I insisted on synthetic and got penzoil platinum or something at $26 for 5 quarts, and he got part synthetic high mileage at like $16 for 5 quarts. Kind of ironic that the 08 suburban got the high mileage vs the 84 jetta got the high-performance synthetic, but I couldn't talk him into synthetic.

And the problems started on the way home. Started fine, got to the turn lane to get on the main road home, and it kind of jerked and died when starting to get moving. After trying to start it a few times, it acted a bit like it was out of fuel, as it would kind of start but wouldn't idle (the fuel gauge was broken so we had no idea how much fuel it actually had, its on my to-fix list which happens to be a VERY long list) After pushing the vehicle to a gas station a few block and putting 5 gallons into it, we decided that the problem wasn't fuel. When trying to start it, it sounded like it rotated about 1 turn and then the engine stopped when still trying to crank on the same cylinder. After several tries, we got it to start, but if it got under about 2000 rpm, there was a good chance the engine was going to die and that it would be difficult to get it to start again. You might call it an extremely rough idle. Anyways, my dad drove home, allowing the engine to die numerous times, and when it was trying to accelerate the whole car shook and you could feel when the engine when it decided to fire correctly, as most of the time, it seemed, it wasn't.

OK, so what is likely to have caused this? I know the lack of a timing curve probably didn't help, but why did it make it down there fairly smooth and jerk like crazy on the way back? I'm going to see if I can rebuild the distributor tomorrow, but do you think that is the only problem? What else do you think could cause this?

Response From RoboDisko

Sorry for delay.

Engine wasn't running well because the timings were off. Timings got off because since the vacuum advance thing wasn't in, the timing sensor was free to rotate by itself.

Anyways, got the vacuum advance back on, and it's running fairly well. Thanks a ton for the advice, and those diagrams are amazing! If I have any more questions or problems, and I probably will, I will start a new thread.

Again, thank you.

Response From Discretesignals

Your welcome! Glad to read that you got it figured out. Thanks for the follow up.

Thread is locked as solved. Can be reopened upon request by the OP.

Response From Hammer Time

Maybe this one will be easier



Response From Discretesignals

Reminds me of the old Chrysler wiring schematics...LOL. Those are a big PITA.

Response From Hammer Time

Most of the old ones look like that. My Vette has everything on one diagram. I have Mitchell Vintage and they all look like that.

Response From Discretesignals

I love Mitchell diagrams...especially when you can highlight each circuit. If AllData had Mitchell's style of wiring diagrams, they would be #1.