Shop Discount Radiator Hoses

Just in case I would like to make clear that the major leak I encountered in the right hand side of the vehicle by the reservoir tank is due to the 10mm tube overflowing. I have seen it with my own eyes. After my test yesterday I observed smoke and coolant coming out of the 10mm tube onto the ground.

Very interesting what you have mentioned
About
“Air or Vapor: It can be combustion gasses from a head gasket type thing or perhaps a hot spot that boils (making gasses) out of your sight. When cooled off again this should be showing up as ever lower coolant at the radiator which you say it isn't so I stuck with what else to suggest.”
If there is air in the system it could explain the level of the coolant always at an acceptable level (because air might push liquid upwards) and also the coolant being pushed out of the 10mm tube . Does it make sense?

Ok: I'm picturing this....... level in rad does end up just a tad low (usual and normal is some coolant would spill just checking at the radiator cap) so with that the coolant up top is still the hottest - let's say close to 200F and the vapors then go to the EMPTY recovery tank which is vented thru that overflow tube. If it had coolant in the tank the air (even minor amounts) would cool just while bubbling up thru the coolant and don't generally get noticed - but it doesn't seem like there's any in there when you notice this - am I mistaken?

Coolant just put in a pan on your stove (don't) would make some steamyness when exposed to ordinary air temps - no different with this.

With the scenario now I'm guessing you are continually adding some which is getting draw back to radiator so it is staying very close to full.

Variables: If you just put a separate hose from the radiator cap spud to a plastic bottle and submersed the end of that hose in the bottle you would see the level go up and down with the overall engine's temp. When pressure is higher than the cap's rating, pressure go out - it doesn't care whether is releases coolant or gas to keep within the caps pressure #. If you just left that tube off or routed a hose to the ground instead of a recovery tank and drove the car hard - hwy, A/C on, then stop and go...... shut off and let fully cool down a few cycles of that it would reach a normal level at the radiator which would look full when hot (don't open with pressure there) and it would look low when cold. Cars need that extra area to be liquid in the radiator all the time as air/vapor doesn't transfer heat well and this is THE trick to use all of the surface area of a radiator ALL the time.

Things even all normal, there's a "high" and "low" mark for the coolant level at the recovery tank. Those are the usual ranges - it can handle being higher that the high mark and lower than the low mark in extemes but shouldn't ever barf out coolant OR go empty - that's why the range is there.

The hot spot concept analolgy: Imagine a metal pipe for example about 20 feet long - low in the middle like a smile and full of whatever, water or coolant. Just take a blow torch to the middle and boil up that spot and it would shoot the water out the ends and when you quit it would no longer be full of water - see the picture I'm drawing?

the point is again that it's consuming coolant - a problem is you can't really account for the amount lost as a puddle under the car so it's probably just escaping notice somehow. An engine either thru failed gaskets or cracks in the block, heads or manifold could allow coolant to be drawn into combustion mix and burn it. This at the rates you have been mentioning would about always show up as white steam out the tail pipe and so far you haven't mentioned that - or overheating or poor engine operating performance so I'm not think that for now.

I'm trying to rule out a head gasket problem which right now I don't think this needs even though that is somewhat common your symptoms aren't consistant enough yet to go there - at least without ruling out, as said, all the items that carry coolant and or vapors from that spout at radiator cap on out.

If you want something to do now - take that recovery tank right out of the car and wash it clean, fill it with water and bet you find a crack or leak in it - sometimes a mount rubs into it or a mounting bolt cracks or again the rubber hose AND the spouts to and from. I'm pretty sure you can use generic hose to replace even if the orig is moulded with bends. I'd just have to look to see that but the old one wouldn't be going back if my job,

T

sorry about delay, have been cut off from Verizon for some limit broadband issues that I am yet to figure out.
Ok things are moving along well finally, I put a brand new radiator cap and to my surprise it solved the leaking at the reservoir tank issue. So thanx for that comment you made some postings earlier, you made so many I don´t remember which. -great troubleshooting.
Ok now that I have the new cap on, I drove about 1 hour and a half and didn´t see any smoke nor leaking from the reservoir so A+ right there .., however it seems that the cap is now maintaining the right pressure on the radiator, which in return it is showing some minor leaks here and there by the radiator grill surface, which might evaporate because I don´t see any remains on the ground and, seems not too serious at the moment. But I am concern about the one leak (it colors the ground rainbow) that seems to come underneath the block (due to some new pressure maybe) which I am yet to figure out where it is actually coming from given the little room I have in the engine compartment area. If it is an actual leak from the engine block, how serious it is???
I did not perceive any white smoke from the exhaust, only did see a few drops of liquid at the end of the exhaust pipe, but I think most cars do that. The temperature gauge stays steady not too hot not too cold which I am assuming means good circulation of the coolant.
By the way every time I see a low level on any liquid I do like Burger King, free refill… I always carry one gallon of coolant and oil in the trunk.
Thanx tom

Ok: Coolant - is it colorless or a typical green? The colors will leave stains even if evaporated. Radiator might need to be sent out for repair or replaced, pressure check would prove the leaks for you.

Rainbow in water? It only takes a drop of an oil to make huge area of water do that. If on dry ground I don't understand. Almost any car puts out a drip now and then.

Water out tailpipe is normal and goes away when vehicle is warmed up. Temp conditions will make that vary.

If you are constantly topping off fluids then take note of which ones. Brake, trans, PS and coolant don't normally consume any - oil a maybe with some cars.

Buy or make up mixed anti-freeze. Full strength causes its own problems. Aim for 50/50 with typical EG based products.

If you do need a radiator start pricing them out now. Check out a repair shop - specialty places fix rads and gas tanks and would sell new as well.

Seems like you are all set for the moment and just keep an eye out and I expect the radiator to need work,

T

Tom, one additional thing on this vehicle. the water pump. if it has never been changed it is at the end of it's useful life. it is partially hidden under the time belt cover so that the weep hole cannot easily be seen. rainbow colored spot. check oil pressure send unit next to oil filter for dampness, japanese cars especially toyota is known for failures of sending unit. leak begins slow then will become a gusher with time. hope this helps

Hi again brbettage and thanks for your thoughts on this. That turned into one heck of a "verbos" thread - my fault and it's now a long read. Problem was just the temp differential of upper and lower hoses at first and a noted empty recovery tank - DAILY - with no evidence.

I'm hoping a pressure test will root out or find what should now be very small problems with the loss of coolant. My objective was to save on jumping to conclusions of a head gasket as it never overheated or lost coolant at the radiator??

Water pumps and age. Your right - that and more is suspect. WPs are not an item I sought to replace myself over the years when nothing noted unless they were difficult and in the path of other work anyway and would ask a customer is they wanted the old one back or a new one - no matter to me if it's off anyway.

Welcome to the site,

TomG

Talk about fast replying, this is better than most technical help lines out there.

Yes, the leak underneath the block could be oil and also coolant mixed together but no sure yet. Need to do more observing… That´s why I would love to replace every gasket and seal in that block.
My goal is to now keep replacing every part on the car until I encounter a major reparation that will not justify keeping the car.
So I need to prioritize the parts that need most care and help maintain the car and prevent it from more damage.
I think maybe I should consider replacing head gasket first to keep car from leaking anymore oil. At the same time change the time belt just in case. Also, inspect the head to look for any damage …
I need to put in a new exhaust, then the most expensive to replace the radiator, new shocks, new front tires, and last and much less important repairing body damage, and if nothing else pops out which is likely to happen, hopefully, I can put in another 50k-100k on the car, that should be a sweet deal. I have a dream…
eric, nj

OK, first of all this engine does NOT leak oil from the head gasket. there is NO reason to replace a headgasket on this engine unless it is blown (cooling passages to combustion chamber or cylinder to cylinder which causes low to no compression in adjacent cylinders). I would put money on oil leaks at the three seals on the front of the engine (behind time belt) which are the crank front, cam front, and oil pump seals. Cam and crank seals are readily available from local parts stores; the oil pump seal will have to be purchased from the dealer as part of a kit-although only the seal will be used in your situation. This engine has been near bullet proof over the years if maintained (ie: regular oil and filter changes and regular coolant flushes and changes). The valve cover tends to leak with some age but mostly into the spark plug wells past those four seals attached to the valve cover. I own an 89 celica gt with this same engine and have had nothing but exceptional service from it....after changing the seals (both front and rear on thecrank and front seals under the time belt) I have also worked extensivly on these engines over the years and have seen a near 0% problem rate except where the owner neglected maintenance. Don't give up on it and don't go changing major parts as they seldom wear out with normal maintenance. I'll check back on this forum monday to see how it's coming....good luck, rick

thanx for the advice I think the seals you mentioned are in most needed replacement. Also, I have heard of a substance called Block Seal would you recomend it , it is suppose to infiltrate in all cracks and seal them tight. I seem to have some leaks on the radiator that from time to time cause some vapors may be that block seal could repair them ... But other than these nuissances I want to keep the car on the road. When the weather gets better out here in jersey I will maybe change the radiator and the exhaust pipe myself since I don´t have a garage. That might bring out some lengthy blogs on this site. Ma toyota c´est fantastique (french comercial)...
Thanx man

one thing i have always told my customers and will tell you here. think about radiator stop leak or block seal products in an objective way. these products seal small leaks. now imagine your radiator/heater core...they are both "boxes" consisting of many small passages that coolant flows through - essentially many small "leaks"...or at least this is what block seal products "see" when you introduce them into the system. Since the products are meant to seal small leaks and your radiator and heater core are essentially hundreds of small "leaks"; what do you think the sealing products will attempt to do? they will seal the passages...or many of them; causing a reduction in cooling capacity and/or heater core efficiency. Many professional mechanics believe in these products; others do not. I happen to look at them logically in that they seal leaks. i have replaced numerous heater cores and radiators over the years due to use of these products. i do occasionaly use a product that comes in a small tube about 3 inches long and 1 inch diameter that contains a silver or gold colored powder (makes no difference which color) with fairly good results; but only in systems that i knew were in good shape and clean inside. i onlyused them for leaks i had identified as in the radiator itself and were quite small. So, use your own judgement and be prepared for radiator replacement or heater core replacement as a consequence in a worst case scenerio. just a little advice to the crew! good luck, rick

Agree with you on that STOP LEAK stuff.
At best, is is a quick fix to get you HOME or to a Service station where your radiator/cooling system can be checked out by a certified mechanic.

Take care of your car, and it will take care of you.

If this "Block Seal" is your short term intention for cooling system leaks I would rather suggest the one sold at NAPA and elsewhere called radiator sealer and block repair - don't believe everything you read. It's not a sawdust type and made by Mac's and sold under other names too. It can work but only use a couple ozs of it - the whole bottle can clog a heater core! Nothing will seal a shaft seal like the water pump has so don't pollute the system with stuff that really can cause other problems. If a little doesn't work within a day or so with a small leak then do the fix. The product I'm talking about will flush out so you won't have stuck junk in there when you need or want to do it right,

T

Some more questions and some tests: Do you see coolant leaking - even traces at the radiator? Does the recovery tank fill by itself and then empty when cooled off fully?

If tank is empty when stone cold, then fill with coolant at the radiator cap. Clean up the cap especially the rubber seals (two) and there's a metal flapper that needs to set down on clean rubber - or new cap if you wish solves that question.

Now with rad known full and cap good, start the engine and feel the top radiator hose for pressure. Before you start you notice there's none and you should be able to squish it in with fingers a bit - that's a base point. Now with it running from cold feel the hose at 30 sec, 1 min, 2 min - and it really shouldn't pressure up too quickly. Hose should stay cold all this time. Feel for temp when about 5 min passes and somewhere around there it may have pressure and start to feel warm (always watch out for hot items and use judgement) - it will be too hot to touch when engine is fully warmed up.

If it pressures up too quickly you may notice the level at the reservoir filling up right in front of you. That's a bit too fast and would indicate a head gasket leak allowing combustion gas pressures to enter the cooling system. If so get a careful diag before you blame the head gasket so quickly.

If you allow it to cool and coolant level in reservoir stays filled then check at radiator - it may be low there with tank still showing coolant. Fill again and repeat that test - this time it may or may not barf coolant out of the reservoir/recovery tank.

If available - a pressure tester would save some time and watch it hold or not and look for leaks. Don't exceed the rating on the cap for pressure.

Depending on what happens between reservoir and radiator staying full, observing pressure by hand this still could be a rad cap problem, small leak in system, or a real head gasket problem.

Note: The cap is sprung to release expanded coolant to reservoir as it heats up. That also allow for higher temps before boiling. Same cap with the smaller metal disc allows coolant to be drawn back to the radiator when engine cools and coolant contracts thus maintaining the engine "full" all the time and not consuming coolant - got it?

Any leaks can prohibit the coolant from returning or inhibit pressure from building up normally.

The smoke suggest a small leak if no coolant is seen but could be found if so.

I probably just confused the heck out of you but hit back and let's see if we can nail this,

T

ok after some testing I have observed the following...:

After warming up and driving the car for say 10-20 min the following happened:

Coolant reservoir overflow tube started pushing out coolant , (next morning reservoir tank was empty)

Smokes came out of my reservoir tank while leaking the oil

Radiator did mantain the level of coolant

Hose going into the radiator (top hose, the one on the left of the pic) was extremely hot while second hose did not raise temperature)

Next moring did see a major leak on the right side underneath the coolant reservoir and another minor leak on the left hand side underneath the engine block (wonder why)...

1. Let's try not to confuse oil and coolant if we can. On your finger, coolant would rinse off with plain water and oil wouldn't. Colors alone might not be so easy.

You've noted leaks that need to be observed leaking. Take recovery tank out if needed and replace hose to it.

Fill tank off car with just colored water if needed to test.

Top rad hose would be hot with thermostat open even a little. Average thermostats are releasing coolant to radiator at about 195F - that's scalding hot if you touched the coolant itself - don't! It's supposed to be cooled by radiator for return - that's normal.

Radiator staying full is great news so far. Doesn't take much of any oil or coolant on a hot part to make smells and smoke/steam.

Recovery tank and line to it is not in the pressurized part of this cooling system. The rubber hose is cheap and the tank usually fixable - ask.

If everything that's under pressure (which is all of the system controlled by rad cap) doesn't leak you are all set and need to fix that tank and hose to it from what I see so far.

Find the source of the leak whatever it takes. Clean off areas by towel or pressure wash - but careful with that and don't water clean up a hot engine,

T

On my last posting I made a mistake when I said " Smokes came out of my reservoir tank while leaking the oil " oil = coolant (mistake)


the leak on the reservoir tank is actually not a leak that can be repaired because the tube going to reservoir tank has two openings at the reservoir tank end ,one going inside the reservoir tank and another one going outside (that last one opening is where the coolant is being push out)

I think that the liquid inside the radiator is being push out when hot outside the opening on the reservoir tank side.

Also I have forgot to mention that the car heater works fine and the temperature of the engine stays at the middle between hot and cold.

I did see coolant in both sides of the car one underneath the reservoir tank and one underneath the the engine block.

Could it be that there is no circulation on the radiator meaning the fluid comes in the radiator but does not leave ( blocking ) may be I should remove lower hose and see what is inside?
Where is the thermostat on the toyota engines 2.2 4 cyl?

Tom,

Your link didn't work, but it pointed me in the right direction. In the radiator section at the same site, figure 1 shows the hose routing with the lower going to the stat and the upper going to the head. I'll reverse my hoses this evening and try to bleed the system better and see where it goes from here. Hope I haven't cut the one too short!

Thanks,
Dave

Ok: That's "AutoZone's" parts site. Some, not all when you look for a part will show how it's replaced, located or more about it. Look below when you get a picture of a thermostat for example the look for "repair guides" below that and if there's any further stuff it's hidden there - just a trick to be able to look at stuff.

If you can take pics that's even better so I/we can see just what you are dealing with.

Bleeding: If a plug up high on or near thermostat is there it's for letting air out. If not sometimes you can just remove the highest hose and fill from there and re-attach. Run engine till heater works and upper hose past thermostat is warm to hot and shut if off for a good while. It should be pushing air out to recovery reservoir and when it contracts as it cools can only draw back liquid. Can take many cycles of that to be stabil.

If heater worked before it will work now and when no heat is noted it's frequently because the actual liquid in the cooling system's engine side is still too low unseen at a glance. Understand that the thermostat when closed is not letting air thru it so it must be warm enough to open but don't let it overheat. As said - some t-stat's come with a slot or mini hole to let the air past it when cold but that's still painfully slow and with even minor junk going thru system won't work as it would plug.

Getting air out is not as quick and simple as it looks sometimes. Keep at it and look for the signs of temp stability as the idicator that it's mostly done and would finish the last tidbits of air over use so re-check your coolant level daily for a few days of use is suggested by me anyway.

Good luck - keep trying,

T

Tom,

It always bugs me wondering how some suggestions worked out, so I thought I'd tell you how this project ended up now that it's running again and I've semi-caught up some of the other things that got behind.

This started out as project to replace a damaged exhaust valve. The last car head I had removed was in a Vega over 30 years ago, so the DOHC experience was not where I really wanted to start. It all went relatively well. As I said, I had used (obviously faulty) logic to decide the radiator hoses had originally been reversed. I put them back correctly, but things still weren't normal. Got frustrated and went to bed. On a whim, turned on the key the next morning and waited on the gauges to stabilize. Lo and behold, the temp gauge was showing normal after resting all night! Must have damaged it when I was banging the head around. Went out and bought another sending unit and that solved that problem. Once I put the proper Permatex on the head to radiator hose adapter (looks kinda like a smaller thermostat housing) and resisted the urge to tighten it all the way down, that solved another problem. Other little incidentals like the intake cam being one tooth off, a nicked O-ring on an injector (those are hard to find replacements for), etc. kept the job interesting. I enjoy reading and using web resouces to learn how things work, plus I really couldn't afford to replace my 280k+ mileage car right now. I had hoped that new valve stem seals, camshaft seals, and a valve cover gasket would make a significant difference in my oil consumption since they were all leaking, but that has not proven to be the case. Guess that means instead of $350, I should have spent 4 to 5 times that to rebuild the engine, but I was worried that even my $350 would be wasted as I would overlook (or cause) some other major problem. At least this gets it to where I can sell it in good conscience later if I want to. Plus I can buy a lot of oil for $1000.

I appreciate people like you that enjoy helping those of us that have the reasoning power and desire, but lack the practical experience to solve our problems. I try to do the same in other areas where I have knowledge.

Thanks again,
Dave

Thanks, Tom. Fortunately, the thermostat only fits in one way, with the spring into the pipe running across the back of the block to the water pump. One thing I forgot to do was open the heater valve to purge that system, too. I'll run it through one more cycle this evening. Guess there's always a chance the new thermostat is bad, but probably I just didn't get enough air out. Is that drawing available somewhere that I can read the labels?

Dave

OH, your problems are going to be a lot worse than that. You drove it hot until it just stopped. It's pretty likely fried now. You can take a compression test to confirm this but I'm betting you just turned a $20 radiator hose into a blown motor..

The only other possible explanation is the coolant got into the ignition system. Your going to have to perform some tests to find out. Check for spark at the plug end of the wire with a spark tester and if you have spark, you'll have to do the compression test.