Shop Pontiac Head Gaskets

There is no "briefly" answer to that due to so many different variables to this type of a job, but I'll try to answer that in way that makes sense...

To understand the answer there are a couple of things you need to be aware of 1st..... In the automotive world there is a misconception by customers that everthing is 100%. You hook up a machine and it tells you everything that is wrong with the car. A technician does an inspections and should easily be able to find every fault there is or is going to be before the repairs are done.

In reality that just isn't so. Granted there are a lot of jobs where this is true and you do know with out a doubt after the diag, what the problems are, all of them. But on the reverse there are failures like yours where there is a huge gray area than no one knows. In order for the 1st tech to have been able to spot this possible problem, he would've had to disassembled the engine, do a visual 1st & then plastigauge the bearings, mic the cam, crank and all the journals, along with about 100 other checks and it still wouldn't be a 100% but the odds would have been way higher on spotting a lower end problem. I'm sure you can guess what the costs of that would've been and no repairs would've even been started yet at that point.

This problem would be similar to a broken timing belt on an interference engine. The only way to know if there is damage or not is to put a new belt back on and check it. Granted there is tests a tech could preform before putting a belt on but those tests would cost double what it would cost of just putting a belt on and seeing if there is damage.

So to try to answer you question. Doing an upper end repair is a totally acceptable repair. There really isn't anything he could of done to the camshaft during the repair. Just so you know if I see enough evidence that the it was techincian error. I will say that (and have in few threads already). Right now, I haven't heard or seen anything that would suggest the shop is at fault.

Shops will bid these jobs differently. Some will just do the upper end repair to keep the costs down for the customer. Some don't want to risk a possible lower end problem that can go along with those repairs and estimate a complete engine.....

If the engine ingested water when the head gasket went then that would be the culprit. Those are common for breaking the camshaft at the journal by the #5 cyl. The water reeks havoc with the bearings & they seize...

The main reassembly problem on those that I've seen is overtorquing the rocker arm bolts. It cracks the treads and pulls them out. Or mixing up the pushrods, they have different length intake & exhaust push rods but that would be obvious on start up.....

There was really nothing that needed to be done to the camshaft on a headgasket job but I am curious why he passed on the job........

I'm not sure of the mileage but at this point it might not be a bad idea to go with a short block (since the heads have already be done) instead of just a camshaft & bearing if you are planning on keeping the vehicle......... You still have the lower end to think about...........

But they do sell "Mechanic in a bottle" ...............



T

I take it you had an external leak and use that sealer outside which got you by for that somehow! Coolant may not boiling over but rather combustion gasses are putting vapors into cooling system blowing it out at reservoir leaving air in rest of system which if not soon will overheat and need the real job done with
head sent out to machine shop for inspection, repair or declare it unfixable is what I think you are experiencing.

You can test for combustion gasses in coolant reservoir/recovery tank to help with other observations and tests to verify this,

T

Yes it is possible for the intake gasket to allow water into crankcase. I would be asking> why are they not fixing a relatively straight forward repair for a mechanic, and sell a working problem free car . I smell a rat. I would look for another car. IMO

well I actually am quite happy that they are not fixing it. Because I don't have very much money to buy a car. and they are selling it for $475. soooo.... it is cheap and easy to get. and I need a car before August.

You might want to take RTs advise here......For an old man, he got a pretty good nose...........

I see you said this was a "dealership".... Just so you know how it works....

Highend dealers won't sell marginal cars off their "Pre-owned" lot...They have a good rep and want to keep it that way......They wholesale them to low end lots......(and NO they won't deal with the public on these ones........it's DEALERS only)

Low end lots usually know what they have and what it will take to make a profit. If this car just took a $60 set of gaskets & paying their guy a few hours, to be able to sell it for a few grand...........They would do it... They make mistakes just like everyone else. Once they find out it was a mistake, they are just looking to get their money back and move on to something else they can make money on.......

If this was a private party sale, you would have a slight chance at gettting "lucky". If this lot if "offing" this car, you don't want any part of it unless you have the same year & model you need parts for.....

This car is trash & not worth the money to fix & make usable or the car lot would do it...........Thats what they do for a living..........

Actually I was pretty sure this was a used car lot we were talking about and my post was based on that. This kind of a deal you wouldn't get from a dealership unless you knew someone there....

You seemed determined to get this car. I know it sounds like a good deal and maybe it is, none of us are there to check it out.

You've mentioned the car and the problem. If you do get this car, what is the plan? What is the budget to get it back on the road? What is too much? Who is going to be doing the work?

With any used car purchase I always push for a prepurchase inspection..... This one with the problem it has that inspecton could wind up being a 1/4 of the value of the car.

If there is any way you could get an experience tech to look at this would be good, especially if you could get it in the air to look underneath...

The last question you need to answer and it's been asked a few times all ready....

Why is this car lot selling this car "as is" and not fixing it and selling it????????

It my area this car books out at around $3500.

I went again to look at it today. The motor runs and sounds good. and I apologize the oil is not white is like chocolate milk. I had not seen it in about a month so my memory was a bit hazy. I took a friend out to look at it with me and he said everything checked out fine. Well except for the oil. The tranny fluid looked good. There was no visible leaks. Like I said clean car. And pretty cheap. I took a bargain and put 300 down on it. After taxes and title the total cost will be 550. If all else fails, I will get it running by replacing the Head Gasket and then sell it.

Good luck with your new car.......Hopefully things work out good for you...

completely understood since it is aluminum. However any other cheap car needs a motor, a tranny or both. and I would end up paying 3 grand for a car that is not worth the trouble. This car is cheao, so if I do end up needing to replace the motore, it will not be killer. And thank you. I am really excited about it :)

Remember, no one can tell you what is wrong with that engine without taking it apart. That particular engine is prone to cracking the head when overheated and the symptoms are exactly the same as a bad intake gasket. You'd be looking at a lot more that $600 then.

Although it is possible for the intake gasket to give you that result, there is no way to distinguish between that and a cracked head or blown head gasket without taking it apart so they can't know which it is. Their diagnosis could be just wishful thinking or they may be right. The point RT is making is that they may have doubts about the diagnosis and chose to sell it "as is" instead of taking it apart and finding something worse. It would make more sense for them to repair it first if it was only an intake gasket because they would get a lot more for the car so it's leaves us very suspicious as to why they chose that route.

I smell that rat too LOL. However, if you can negotiate down even more AND the cost to put it in your name isn't too high. Here it means a $75 Title, plus full value sales tax no matter what for private sales.

If cheap enough to give it a shot and it doesn't work out just cut losses quick. Here any car the salvage yards are paying $200 bucks no matter the condition but you have to have proper documentation that you own it too,

T