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Not much info here:

In general if only a gasket needed you take out the manifold and clean up both surfaces and put it back in but with torque and sequence to specs. I don't have them but you start retorquing from the middle and work your way out.

You could guess and it probably would work but I really suggest doing it right, T

By the looks of those markings on the side, that TPS came from a wrecking yard.....

Wrecking yards are ok for some parts but not electronics, especially computer sensors, actuators, etc....

Get one from the dealer or a parts store & do a PDT {pin drag test) on the connector to make sure the terminals aren't loose.....

So this part could definitely be the issue of my car turning off?

A guess: It's more apt to make it run lousy if failed. It may also be able to stop fuel flow if connection is messed up. Many cars will sense "foot to floor" to clear a flooded engine but for cranking and it could be confused there?? In that pushing on it made a difference I'd look hard at it again for physical issues with the plug......

T

Eric,
I too had the radiator crack in the same spot. the replacement also cracked 2 days after install but the 3rd one seems good. I have not had a water pump that didnt pump. both hoses get hot and there are no engine cooling problems. At this time I only have 15 degree hotter heat. I have also had a friend (not a mechanic) tell me maybe I should replace the water pump. As of right now I havent decided to try that. The pump is pumping fine and not leaking. I dont understand why this would effect the heater. I get extremely hot air when the fan is on low 195 degrees to be exact. so I know the pump is doing its job. I might be wrong but I dont think that is the problem. I welcome any explannation as to why this would make a differece. when mornings are in the upper 30s and low 40s the heat works fine. its still slow to warm up but I do have to turn it down before I get to work. I have found that if I run the a/c on max(recirculate) and the temp selector on hot as possible then it will warm up on those 20 degree mornings. so on those rare days I will make do. I cant justify in this economy spending a hundred bucks on a water pump that I dont know beyond any doubt will fix the problem. So if you can explain why (or anybody reading this) I would love an explaination. good luck with yours.

Eric,

I moved it because you tagged it on an old post such that we would have to read the whole thing again. State just your problems please as they are not "just like that one" that was a mile long.

Ok: You are messing with 12F temps so thermostat isn't going to open too much and lower hose would be cold as radiator has abundant cold air.

If the complaint is poor heat than be checking the heater hoses and that temp can get to operating temp, no more no less even at the cold temps. If it fluctuates, continues to have air that's an issue. At first fill there will be some air that should purge out in a couple cycles such then when radiator cap is removed it's always full. Recovery tank will vary level based on warm or cold as marked.

Need to know the heater core's hose temps in and out - the smaller (typical for inlet to be smaller hose) should be very hot and outlet still fairly hot on a cold day but still not cold - all with engine at operating temps.

What is the coolant freeze protection set to? Way too strong won't work well,

T

Thank you Tom & SkyDver.
I read your posts when I got home from running errands after work last night. I had an hour or so of drive time with 15 minutes of that being on the Interstate @60~70 mph. The outside temperature was 31° F (with a light rain) So somewhat warmer than what we have been having. I went out to check the heater hoses as Tom suggested. The truck had 15 or 20 minutes of cool-down time by the time I got out there. I was able to feel both heater hoses from as close to the water pump as I could get all the way to the firewall and they were both consistently warm to the touch. I also felt the top radiator hose and it felt about the same temperature as the heater hoses. The lower radiator hose was cold. I am not exactly sure how to specifically measure the temperature of the coolant in just the heater hoses. I do have several meet thermometers that I could shove in one of the vents in the cab while the heater is running and the truck is at operating temperature ((160°/170° F) per gauge). I am not sure if that will give an accurate reading of the actual temperature of the heating system.

Note:
Both heater hoses appear to be the same size inside the engine compartment.

(coolant freeze protection) - Fresh anti-freeze when I replaced the water pump.
Approximately a 60% solution of antifreeze. It was Prestone (non-diluted/all make & model )that I picked up from Wal-Mart.


Thanks -- Eric

Eric - sorry if I came across short on you. No excuse - was tired from shoveling damn snow and the phone was ringing off the hook messing up my train of thought. I'm here all the time so would know how the site works best for you.

Know this: You need to know a few things with a poor heat situation. Is the thermostat new or not staying shut till it's prescribed temp? If your gauge is accurate the answer is NO. 160-170F will only pant warm air. There's a temp loss just going thru ductwork that varies but can be significantly lower than the coolant that goes thru the core.

It's hard to understand but you are quickly losing heat transfer ability with strong antifreeze concentrations. As said it's a terrible heat exchanger as it holds less caloric value that plain water which we can't do. One huge problem is testers are frequently way off! I test new testers with exactly known 50/50 mix to achieve an industry standard of -34F protection. Some vehicle ask for -20F to enhance heat transfer for the engine! A setting of -20F at -40F will freeze to a slushy mess that won't circulate (a problem) but doesn't expand when frozen. Plain water expands as we know and wrecks things and has no anti corrosive ability so we still use antifreeze. Rock and hard place.

We really need know as you are complaining what the available temps really are. Radio Shack has a $15 touchless infrared thermometer which is wicked handy. You will love to have one - check you home fridge and freezer - oven temps etc.

Harbor freight (I hear) has one for $10 with the battery but range isn't as much.

The metal cover to the thermostat should be very close to the thermostat's rating once it has opened even a smide. Doesn't matter too much how cold the weather as there is abundant heat from and engine. Think of the wind chill on a radiator at hwy speeds which is the speed heat will transfer not when it will freeze.

The heater hoses when fan is on low should be hot to the touch - perhaps too hot to touch depending on your tolerance. I trust you will be careful as 200F water is way over what would burn you.

Air must be out and once drained it takes a couple or more cycles of thermostat opening and closing to finish getting air out in this type engine. Some are a nightmare to purge.

A test: Feel upper hose from cold. Duh upon start up it should be cold and stay stone cold till engine is up to operating temp and even though at cold temps thermostat doesn't open fully you can quickly notice that hose warm up. If it's showing warmth before the engine is warm something is wrong with the thermostat. It could be the part or it's installed with a bend or such that coolant can pass by it and even a little will mess up the show.

Need the actual temps available to proceed. Sounds so far like the heater core is ok but the coolant temp is too low and the higher fan speeds will act like wind chill on it but the higher calorie hot liquids win out over air even well below zero and especially a V8 engine. I'll allow for excuses at about -20 or more but temp should stay even in this at all but the wildest extremes if all is well.

Job #1 is accurate available temps of coolant and never mind the lower hose of radiator,

T

Thank you Tom!
I looked on line at Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/search/ucResultsNoProducts.jsp?sr=1&kw=infrared+thermometer&origkw=Infrared+Thermometer&kwCatId=) but they were not showing any. Harbor Freight does have one for $20.00 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93984) and we do have a store relativity close by, but I won't be able to get out that way until this weekend. I did try and call a couple of the auto parts stores close by (O'Riley & AutoZone) to see if they had one behind the counter that I could borrow right quick to take the mesurments out in the parking lot, but neither one of them had one. I should be able to do your quick test tonight or late tomorrow after noon. I have NOT replaced the thermostat as of yet. I hope that the quick test can rule one way or another on weather to replace it or not. I would think that the air has purged it's self from the system as I have been driving it daily (Sat=2weeks on new water pump). With the cold we have been having I do let it warm up out in the drive a good 10~15 minutes before I leave in the morning.

Thank you again for your help and I will let you know what the results are.


-- Eric

Tom,
Okay so sounds like thermostat replacement and reducing the antifreeze to water ratio.


The thermostat sits horizontally on the intake manifold. I found a very nice post on replacing a thermostat on Dodge 318/360 trucks complete with step by step photographs. Pretty straight forward, just have to get a few things out of the way to get to it. The only concern I have is being able to get to the manifold to clean the old gasket material off. O’Reilly is the closest parts store for me and they have several to choose from. I’ll stay away from the cheepies.


Looks like if I get my butt in gear and get going now, I should be able to knock this out before the outside temperatures drops and the rain/snow move in. Thank you again for all your help and explanations. I have a MUCH better understanding of the system works and what I need to be aware of. I’ll let you know how things turn out.


--Eric
(edited out links that snuck in - nothing more)

Yes - it should be a cake walk thermostat. Take the hose right off the outlet and clean that outlet real good off car. Stuff a rag (don't lose it in engine please) in where thermostat sits so it gasket junk gets around it wont get into cooling system.

Now if the detent is in the outlet, make sure t-stat is exactly in the detent for it (go 195F) and stick gasket using the Permatex to hold it in place. Another trick for when a thermostat is indexed to exact spot in the outlet is to use a piece of "mechanics" or softer wire to hold it, bend over edge in such a way that a gentle tug will harmlessly remove the wire.

DON'T OVERTIGHTEN THE NUTS/BOLTS OF COVER TO MANIFOLD! If cover breaks new ones are available. May have to get some fancy chrome one if needed right away.

OK: All hooked up now. You didn't need or shouldn't have needed to empty the system to do this as it's up high. Use just water up to 1 qt first then add coolant set to about -10 for the rest if there is still lots of coolant in the engine. It's guesswork but check and recheck several times over the next week of use that you aren't not over much at least the -34 -- a tad less concentrated is fine as said earlier.

Specific to this engine (been around since the wheel) is just run heater, let and watch engine warm up after initial fill at radiator with cap on, feel for heat at the upper hose AND watch gauge. There plain will be some air to burp out. Shut down engine before it gets too hot. Heat handily rises so thermostat will stay open letting the air to radiator. Wait - feel for pressure at upper hose as an indicator for pressure to subside and you'll find coolant level dropped. Start engine with cap off (careful as if engine is hot coolant can shoot back out so goggles and stand a bit away if unsure of yourself and slowly add your waiting coolant to the now lowered level till full. When heater throws heat there's enough for it to self burp/purge the rest using the recovery tank over several cycles it will expand, send air to recovery tank and when cooled off again only return coolant - voila!

This engine should be done in a few cycles and stable. Check it every day and have ready to use coolant with you. A clue that it's overheating or with large air bubble left is heat won't work at all. Watch gauge like a hawk.

Again: test your anti-freeze tester and if not accurate using a measuring cup get a new one and check it too. Too many are way too far off. If you use a measuring cup meant for food (not a great idea if you can't clean that like crazy) than use a plastic cup and destroy it as antifreeze is poison! Plenty of 16 oz cups out there that are disposable.

Once more. If thermostat is to be stuck in the outlet there's always a chance it didn't seat well or stay in it's spot and it would do exactly like before if coolant slipped by it. Most would leak but not always.

Take you time to do it right once and don't get mad if it does slip out of place chalk it up to practice. If that happens make sure thermostat isn't bent or another is indicated.

You can do this. If you go to the Heat and A/C section there's a neat chart of how mixtures of known quantities will result in what freeze level protection stuck in the top few threads there.

Good luck,

T

PS: Let us know how it all worked out.............

Tom,
Looks like the new thermostat has done the trick. It was unusually warm on Saturday so good for me working outside, but hard to get a good idea how well the heater is working. There was, however a noticeable improvement in the temperature inside the cab. We are back to falling temps. They are saying by Thursday a high of 16° . So it will be a good test of the new thermostat. I haven’t’ had a chance to take temperature measurements from a cold start, but I did note a temp of 179° on the heater inlet hose while I was topping off the coolant after getting it all put back together. I did take it out for a brief test run and topped off the overflow when I got back… about a quart or so. I’ll keep checking it when I get home from work for the rest of the week to make sure it’s topped off.
Thank you again for all your help and I hope that this will help out the other readers as well!


--Eric

Sounds like you got it eric - way to go!

Temp should stay steady now warm day or not as it's regulated as intended. Stay warm,

T

As you have been advised already, you are over your head in this job and the distributor never needed to be touched to replace a timing belt. You don't understand procedures when they are given to you. Do as you were advised and give the job to someone experienced.

Advisement to sub it out! I could have, but I wont! Dont, need that at this ponit to far out Just need to know the rotor positon issue Thats what this forum is for to get answers! Your judging my issue on mechanical abilitys!
Its not a tech line only is it? Thanks for your concern though!

Hammer, Any Disributor, have you had one in the Years you worked on vehicles that just the gear was bad? I have seen several! The rotor was not turning so, the easiest thing to check without ripping apart everything! IS that gear!
That would be the reason I pulled the distributor,Ooops, sorry,I made the mistake of not looking at rotor position at the time because of the situation at the time of breakdown! Figured I would explain my self to you and everyone else who read this! Thanks for your concerns!

Hammer, Any Disributor, have you had one in the Years you worked on vehicles that just the gear was bad?

Haven't seen that happen for years and years but it would have been very simple to find simply by grabbing the rotor and turning it. I have never removed a distributor without marking it first though and if I did have to time one, I wouldn't have to ask how..

Just proves my point more.

Geeeee, It was a honest mistake, I forgot to look! So, thats why Iam asking since the book says point between 2-6 on the tower at the #1 contact ponit and other threads i have read say point it at The #1 marked on the cap! Wht position would you put it you seem to be the person who would know As i read threads!

Thanks, Perfect now I will explain, Hammer, you knew this was coming!
On this picture there 2 positions for #1! At the plug wire tower top cap #1 itself and bewtween 2- 6 towers
at the contact#1! So, what are they refering to as terminal in this explanation? It also staes than when Distributor is fully seated, rotor will be under Terminal! The word "Under"That indicates to me they are talking cap tower Rotor pointing under the #1! Confused yet, Lol!

OK, I gave you the benefit of the doubt. If you can't follow the instructions, get someone else to do it. I told you that you were over your head and you won't listen. I'm done here.

Hammer or Anyone, You ever think of this: To install the distributor, but rather than positioning the rotor pointing to the No.1 cylinder lead as in most engines!There is a mark on the distributor drive gear and the housing that have to be lined up! Now, line up the two marks and with the stud located in the centre of the adjusting slot! Thats what the distirbutor deal I have!
Ok,Now I Proved my point, Iam done now! Have a good one all!

Good thing you came here for advise from a group of Master Techs. That way you can show us all how much smarter you are then us. Please post more. I enjoyed following the thread.

Jav; Once you have the timing belt on correctly, remove #1 spark plug. Have someone 'bump' over the starter until you feel the push of compression in that cylinder. Line up the timing mark on TDC. Then, put the distributor back in with the rotor pointing to #1 on the cap. As HT said, there is no reason to have pulled the distributor, though.
I gotta admit...you're like a pit bull when you are determined! LOL. If you pull this off, you'll get an 'Atta-boy' from me!

Ok, Loren you said below use No#1 0n the cap! Thats my thinking! But look at the diagram HT shows and read !
Now, you tell me what number #1 you would use? You still thinks its the cap? I think its the cap! We are taught #1 on the cap!
Others are saying Between 2-4! Well, Iam going to have to try both ways and see how it runs! Let me know what your thought is on that diagram! By the way, I will pull this, bet on it, I wont give up! Later, Jav

Jav if you going to be a serious DIY'er you have got to be able to visalize things in your mind . The rotor is at the bottom of the edge of the cap, the contact on its end is spinning around.Where is the contact going to pass closer to in its travel ,the bottom edge contact OR the plug wire tower waaay at the top of the cap ? ................A friendly tip read read read bookds on the BASICS of how engines and their systems work . post back if you figure it out , ok.

Hmmmmm, I dont get it,Every time I have a question, Hammer says he is done??
Now, I got a legittimate question on the diagram he sent! Any one else know what they are refering in the Pic when they say terminal and what #1 position would you use?? Look, Iam not here to be judged! Iam here like every one else to verify an issue! Anyone else look at this and see my point? Thanks, Rich

You will eventually because you're going to have it so screwed up they will charge to double to straighten it out. If you understood how a timing belt works, you wouldn't be asking foolish questions that you don't understand the answers to.

I haven't don't anything since I bought it, want to make sure where the air/fule mixture screws are befor I start turning anything and screw it up more

a friend of mine (who has "some" mechanical experience) just told me this morning that this engine is a 308ci V8
I have been trying to find the VIN or ID #s and am having horrible luck, lol
every thing im finding online says there should be a # stamped near the dizzy on the block. no luck

any idea where it might be able to be found?

identified carb, Holley 6280 2 barrel

Don't take any advice from that fool. There is no such engine. That is a 318, the only size available for that car.
I'm betting that's probably a Rochester or Carter carb. They used Holleys mainly on the slant 6's.

awesome, thanks! that's what I thought & hoped for as far as size lol

the carb ID# 4288565 & R40243 matches to the Holley 6280 2bbl on every search I can find, says dodge used it 85-89 on the 318

the linkage/lines dont seem to match diagrams I found though? im guessing a backyard mechanic re built it or im seriously misunderstanding these schematics....
im feeling it would save me a heap of trouble to replace the carb all together?

You may be right. I'm relying on a very old memory.

They had a ton of problems with that lean burn system. It was one of the first computer controlled cars.

Electronic Lean Turd System, oh ya... That one also has an electronic feedback carb. The module on the air cleaner used to control ignition timing and the mixture control solenoid on the carb based on inputs from the TPS, ECT, O2, crank signal, and etc. Since most the stuff is missing the carb has no feed back. Someone has already changed out the distributor and installed the ignition amplifier.

Without the computer that carb is useless. Your better off removing the intake and carb and installing a 4 barrel carb (600 cfm vacuum secondary) and aluminium dual plane intake manifold.

That's unless you really want to spend a bunch of money restoring it back to how it was and having a totally unreliable fuel and ignition system.

really appreciate the replies & help!
awesome, im on a budget so ill checkout whats in the local salvage yards, if nothing ill coin up & get a new intake and carb
in the back of my head I knew the thing was junk, lol, appreciate the thoughts!

is there anywhere to shop online any of you would recommend?
also, for a quick fix in the meantime, would replaceing just the carb be doable or does all that electrical crap go through the intake too?

The problem is that you can't buy the carb that you would want without changing the manifold.

after pulling it apart I deffinatly understand now
thanks again!

I will be cleaning the valve covers & places I can reach around on the block (trying to track down leaks)
iv been told by a couple different ppl that WD40 or a small amount of gasoline on a rag will dramaticly help taking all the gunk off, would this be recommended? or should I stick to a product from the auto store?
will be using only a rag & pressurized air, NO water

It will be easier to just buy a couple cans of spray brake cleaner.

the choke opened almost instantly & did not see any drip from the boosters (watched for about 2 min)
thanks for the reply!