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I never said 0.5kg of oil
I said 0.5kg of gas
all oil has been lost due to hose blowing
and no I do it myself since I have the equipment gas and spare compressors
ps. ford probe 1993 2500cc converted to r134a

This system should have been factory with R134, not converted. 93 was the conversion year and Alldata says this came with R134. It makes a big difference in the refrigerant charge. Thew OE R134 charge is 28 ounces but if it was retro-ed from R12, you would use 20% less.

alldata is complety wrong
93 was r12 and 94 was the conversion year to r134a


so when pulling vacuum not all oil will be out?

OH really? You sure about that?
You'd better check your info because you are the one that is wrong. 93 was a mixed year.

Your question about vacuum pulling oil out tells me you shouldn't be fixing this at all. Vacuum doesn't pull anything out but air.

yes I am 100% sure 93 was r12 and 94 was the turnover year


funny all these profesionals, the last time I brought him to a professional they converted him then within a month it was empty again
this time it was the condenser, after buying a new condenser and replacing him I found the "professional didn't tighten the new high side r12 to r134 converter properly" thus loosing my charge and letting me buy and fit a new condenser
so no thank you I will do it myself, and try to learn as much as possible

If you think there were no 93 vehicles using R134 from the factory, you are just an idiot.
It's pretty apparent that you think you know more than us and you don't need any help so we'll close this now.

HT - 93........... See PM **********************

I'd say around 2 to 3 oz of PAG 46. Not all the oil in the system is going to come out. You'll still have some trapped in other parts of the system. When you get it back together and running check your high side pressure and make sure it isn't too high.

A sticker should state what the charge is underhood or could look it up if you know what year this unless it's a secret!


Oil added for something like that depends totally on "educated guessing." That would be based on any history of oil charged prior to this, how fast hose blew and was A/C even running at the time plus what mess it might have made if all at once from working properly. It would still be a guess but could get close enough.


For the refrigerant I list 40oz if it was OE R-12 or 28oz if OE R-134a. If converted to 134a would need to know which oil was used.


Sorry to come on abruptly with this but seems you don't have a clue and many don't so it's NOT a DIY project. The hose might have been easy that's all - the charge up should be sent out IMO still,


T

And this is why AC is not a DIY job. It requires knowledge and experience during the process to estimate how much oil has been lost. You don't even state what components were replaced. That has a lot to do with how much oil may have been lost.

Also, every question here needs to start with year, make, model and engine size.

With HT also. First of all if conversion is correct .5 Kg (Kilograms) by weight is more than the whole system charge of oil! It would fail instantly with damage if you added that much.


Not DIY stuff sport. You need to either really have a good clue of how much oil was lost or start from zero and add specified amount from that or you don't know.


Just that to figure takes a lot of educated guessing if situation is known for a repair which you didn't state nor what year.


Take it to a pro stating what you did and how much you might have measured lost and see if they are willing to guess or flush it all out and start over and you wont like the cost of that,


T

Thanks for quick reply. I checked for vacuum leaks already except for booster. I will check that in morning. This van only has pcv valve, no EGR. I replaced timing chain 10.000 miles ago. Distributor seems tight. Oil has been changed every 3000 miles since new. I think it smoothed out a little under load. Again this problem is intermittent. IT was almost back to normal before it got really bad.
Mike

For the booster, just plug it off at the source and see how it behaves - duh - you won't have power brakes for that test so use judgement.

Vacuum testing could be real helpful and the canceling of plugs one at a time.

What I was looking for with asking if it smoothed out with load is if this is vacuum or intake related at all AND then the carb under load goes off of idle mixtures to intermediate and on to WOT mode. Sometimes cleaning out thru the idle mix screws can help - just put those back where they were.

EGRs can crust up. Hard to just know by looking at them and unplugging the vacuum line isn't the test. You should be able to stall it by hand by pulling up on the diaphragm. If you can get it clean - off vehicle - then just plugging the vaccum line takes it out of the diag for now.

Valve springs have been an issue for me and elusive to target. Weak or cracked ones may idle ok, compression test ok but lose it under load. Vacuum test and watch the needle bounce at various loads is very informative - a lost tool for diagnosis that was key in my day. The tool never far was a pistol type vacuum pump and gauge I wore out a couple times for all kinds of tests and uses. I'll post a pic of one if I can find it - great thing to own in any tool collection.

For now test what you can and try to figure if this is a general roughness or if selecting a cylinder or two. You can swap plugs and wires if a cylinder is isolated to see if problems follow cylinder or parts.

Any other clues? Behaviors when cold, hot, wet, load etc?

T

Tried spraying idle screws holes with carb cleaner, no help. I noticed one more vacuum line going to choke pull-off, I checked pull-off diaphram with vac pump, it was bad so I capped off the fitting at carb base. This helped alot! It now will idle at about 900 rpm, but still rough, below that it dies. I tried pulling plug wires one at time. It was equally rough on each cylinder. I drove it. Its smooth under load and has lots of power. Any more Ideas? At least its drivable now. thanks for your help.
Mike

Some ideas: Vacuum leaks - even check out brake booster and line. Spray carb cleaner at EGR, intake manifold, vacuum lines, carb base etc - carefully as hot spots could flash. Change in idle for better or worse doing that marks a trouble spot.

EGR pintle may be dirty - try cleaning it off vehicle. Check timing chain lash. Can be done looking at dist rotor and turning crank with socket back and forth - no more than 5 degrees allowed and if an original the plastic cam gear is toast from age alone.

Distributor bearing wear possible. Sometimes you can tell with a dwell tach at different speeds dwell reading may flutuate wildly - disregard the dwell # just the fluctuation.

Set fast idle cam on first step so it can stay running and pull or cancel one plug at a time for even RPM drop. Check out any cylinder not like the others.

Does it smooth out under moderate load?

Lots of possibilities so just start checking what you can,

T

Problem Solved! I found an electrical connection on the accumulator that I had not reconnected. Now the clutch is kicking in just fine.

With the helpful information from Tom, I now know how to charge the system the proper way and have ice cold air. The post you have on REFRIGERANT CHARGING PROCEDURE IN AUTOMOTIVE A/C SYSTEMS is great. I wish I would have read it before I started.

I am a big fan of forums and turn to them any time I am working on my snowmobiles, hot rods, or (when I have to) the wife's car. I am smart enough to know I don't know everything, but there is usually someone else out there that can educate me. Every once in a while I run into a guy like Hammer Time or Discretesignals that have no interest in helping, just degrading. The golden rule for the forum is if you have nothing helpful to say then don't say anything at all. All you have to say is don't open the valve on the high side when you are charging. "You are going to blow off your balls and shoot your eye out." is just not helpful. I assume at least Hammer Time is a mechanic by trade and probably the kind who sells blinker fluid to old ladies.

Some forums are better than others.

I assume at least Hammer Time is a mechanic by trade and probably the kind who sells blinker fluid to old ladies.


Hammer would never do that. He does not discriminate and I'm sure would sell it to men who cannot remember to plug in an electrical connector yet choose to heap criticism upon those who try to keep him from wrecking thousands of dollars in parts.

Perhaps the forums of Scotty Kilmer or DJ Hughes would be more to your liking. Its like the short bus of automotive repair. Don't forget your helmet!

How does he know about that stuff? I bet he bought some.

He probably got the cheap stuff and thought it didn't work. I always tell my customers you have to go with OE for blinker fluid, muffler belts and canooter valves and if you don't bad things will happen.

If only people would listen to good advice and just write the check.

I wanna put my 2 cents in. The reason we are hard on some people is because they don't listen to what we are advising. There are safety concerns to deal with when working on ac systems. If for some odd reason the compressor did kick on and you had the high side valve open, it would of probably blown the can up in your hand. You would have ended up in the hospital.

We repair people's cars for a living and can't go around screwing things up because our livelihood and reputation is on the line, so we constantly train to add to what we already know fundamentally. What we know we are donating to people to help them out in our spare time, but if they don't have the basic knowledge or proper tooling we have no choice but to recommend them to a repair shop. Most of us have more than a decade of experience working on vehicles, so when a novice comes in here with no knowledge of properly servicing ac systems, we are going to tell them to stop before they get hurt or they damage something.

If you don't like that...well to F'in bad.

Well, if you have been around enough forums, you must know by now that when you insult the Mods you get thrown out.

Model year, engine size would help and if they ever made these with dual (front rear) evaporators.

OK - a leak was found and is the most common reason for no cooling, compressor will shut down at some point noting low pressure or no pressure of gas in systems.

Do you even have the ability to evacuate the system, wait while it holds and charge in the exact amount of refrigerant? Did you bother to check how much oil came out of old compressor an spin new one with some oil before hand? Is yours a rebuilt (most are junk) or new? Warranty void without driers if a new one not installed on most too.


IDK for each anymore but you may have to prompt this to be ready with a code reader to allow it to engage at all or other tricks as I doubt you have the equipment to do this yourself.

Is there even power getting to the clutch now at all?

On systems that would just begin to engage at a certain pressure there's still a ton you need to have done to be ready to charge it from empty and use the correct amount of proper oil for a component being replaced.

If you are using one of those cans with gauge, sealer and junk you really messed this up even though without compressor engaging some would have gone in to a vacuum.

Read this for the most concise basics and you'll wish you let the shop do this job..........

http://autoforums.carjunky.com/Automotive_Repair_C1/Heating_or_AC_Issues_F8/REFRIGERANT_CHARGING_PROCEDURE_IN_AUTOMOTIVE_A/C_SYSTEMS_P45460/

T

Great! This is even worse than I thought it was. You are not only going to destroy the system but you may end up in the hospital too. I'm sure you have never experienced a can exploding in your hand but you are fixing to.

I see all kinds of bad here. Please tell me at least that this is pure 134a and not the stuff with leak sealer in it.

I see no mention of replacing the accumulator. That needs to be done any time the system is opened, as the dessicant in it has been saturated with moisture from the air. When the moisture comes in contact with 134a it begins a chemical reaction which makes hydroflouric acid.

You put way too much oil in this thing. You are going to blow that new compressor right up. If you charge through the high side and do finally get the compressor to kick in, then what HT has mentioned will happen. The compressor will make so much pressure that your can will explode in your hand. It makes some nasty shrapnel, and it has enough force that should it hit the right spot can be lethal.

Hydroflouric acid? Isn't that something they use in bread and cookies?

No, but if you have the cash I can make you some bomb-ass brownies

I'd stop now and get help before there's no chance of anything but blowing this up.

Last model year I have right at hand was 2004 all used 32oz, 134a, 7oz PAG46 WHICH IS THE TOTAL SYSTEM CAPACITY NOT JUST FOR REPLACING A COMPONENT!

It's not unusual the nothing came out of compressor sometimes just some drops. It was a leaker so some was lost during that time so you would add the amount that you could recover and IMO about 2oz of specified oil.

If using the common 12oz little cans and you can thru gauges you should have used a tap and hose, finished off the vacuum with the real gauges vacuuming high side and the little can probably would dump most of that into the vacuum without the engine running, upside down as a liquid.

Engine off you could have started a charge thru high side into a vacuum but not with a running engine ever.

Now I think you are over oiled and perhaps wrong type unless that year changed specs. You can't tell how much oil is in a system nor tell how much refrigerant is in a system unless they are flushed clean of all. You can still weigh the little cans with can tap and hose attached on a scale.

What prompts clutch to engage is either enough pressure or reset for a grace period and I would have to go hunting for that info.

If there's a pressure reading, just static of about the temp in F as close to PSI it usually would allow power to compressor to engage and finish off thru LOW port for charging.

I just can't say how much overoiled this system can tolerate and you've lost your chance at an educated guess for just a component. Clutch may be NG or not yet empowered probably a good thing for the moment.

Now what do you want to do? Get this all flushed out and start over or turn it over to the pros if you want it to work? The savings of DIYing A/C can easily end up wrecking the system turning a few hundred into a couple thousand buck like nothing flat,

T

Hooked up my first can of 134a. Turned on the car and set the ac to high. Next I opened all valves.

You need to stop right there. Put the stuff away and take it to a shop that does ac repair to properly recover, evac, and recharge the system with the correct weight of refrigerant. You have no clue what your doing and your going to end up injuring or permanently blinding yourself. AC repair isn't for novices or a learn as you go type thing.

You are well on your way to turning a small leak problem into a completely destroyed system. This is not something you should be attempting yourself