Shop Hyundai Spark Plug Wires

All three are in order. Putting the Heet in tank is good to disperse the water. Go to a mechanic or auto parts house (Autozone, Pep Boys read the code for free) and post the EXACT code number that is read from the computer. ANd you can kick the car anywhere that makes you feel better. Just dont hurt your foot in the cold.

Every major dealership suggests replacing a timing chain after 50k miles. I haven't met a dealer mechanic that doesn't swear by regular changes at their shop. Its usually a little bit of bull. Most vehicles, if properly maintained, wont need a timing chain replaced for at least 100-125k miles. Then they just get old and wear out completely. If you're scheduling those changes, you're spending alot of money on something that doesn't necassarily have to happen.

BTW... you spent 250 bux on a tune-up ! Wow. Next time ( I hate saying this ) hit wal mart or something. They're usually ALOT cheaper than that. Or get a boyfriend or something to do it for cost of parts ( about fifty bux. )

make sure if you have a timing belt and not a chain. a timing belt does need to be replaced about every 75,000 miles. You can go longer but you run the risk of the belt breaking and causing severe engine damage. You probably don't have a timing chain because chains on that late of a model car do not ever have to be changed. if you want to find out if you have a belt or chain just call your local parts store and give them your make and model of your car and ask them. they will look it up for free. when a timing belt is changed make sure they are changing all your belts at the same time. you probably have a serpentine belt also that needs to be changed. hope this helps....

You have probably done some serious engine damage. First step is to remove all the spark plugs and do a compression test.

Can you do a compression test on a car that won't run?

Yes you can.

Watch this vid:

Awesome. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks guys!

Ran the compression checks on the 2 cylinders I could get at, they are nos. 1 and 4, and got 30 on the dry check for both and 40 and 45 on the wet. Headgasket? Any other possibilities?

Definitely a problem of some type. It doesn't do any good to take half a compression test though.

Ok, so I got the broken plug caps out, ran the test on the all 4 cylinders, with no. 1 at 30 dry and 40 wet, nos. 2 and 3 coming up under 10 both wet and dry, and no. 1 at 35 dry and 45 wet. Is there any other possibility than a headgasket? I have yet to check the thermostat to see if that was the original problem, could this also be related to a timing belt? Any other possibilities?
Thanks for all the help!

Wow, every cylinder is gone? Unless that engine broke a timing belt that nobody is aware of, it's just wasted. If that happened from temperature, there is some real damage.

I don't think overheating did all that, it was only overheating for maybe 30 seconds before I pulled off and the engine shut down. I'm thinking the person who eliminated the timing belt may have been mistaken. Out of curiosity, what should the compression pressure be? I tried looking it up and couldn't find anything definitive. I've heard people say anything from 50 to 200 psi, but I really have no idea what is accurate for my vehicle. Second question, at this point, should I just replace the engine? I mean, if I have to do a headgasket and a timing belt, wouldn't it be just as easy (time and $) to just replace it? Thanks again!

It requires a minimum of about 100 PSI to even run so that means you have 4 dead cylinders. Head gaskets usually take out one or two but not all at once. A timing belt would do that but it would also bend all the valves in the process so that is not good news either. Even a head gasket can ruin the head and block also so that would likely be terminal to that car also.

good to know on the psi. Ok, so basically regardless of which problem it is, I basically have the options of replacing the engine or scrapping it, right? and with how damaged this one seems to be, repairing this one is probably a waste of time?

We are assuming a lot of facts, not verified yet but that is likely correct.

Ok, so with engines being a little beyond my experience, what else can I do as far as verification before I bite the bullet?

Take it to a reputable shop and have it diagnosed.

Ok, sounds good. I had a feeling I had reached the end of my abilities, so that just confirms it for me. I appreciate all the help!

Of course. Part of the test is to disable the engine to prevent it from starting during the test.

You should do a compression test to see if the rings are shot or you have some type of mechanical problem as a result of the overheating.

Probably would be a good idea to have your mechanic take it for a ride to see exactly what your concern is.

Make sure that your floor mat isn't making contact with your accelerator pedal.

This throttle body is cable operated, so inspect the cables for damage or fraying. Make sure the throttle opens and closes without binding. A dirty throttle bore or sticking plate can cause jack rabbit starts. You could clean the throttle and bore with a tooth brush and cleaner to see if that helps out.

Thank you for your response. No, nothing sticking (that would likely cause idle problems) but your comments got me looking at that area and I found the throttle cable adjusting/lock nuts very loose. Got these this adjusted and properly tightened and that helped a lot. Still think the engine is out of spec though -- probably some clown has toyed with the computer at some point (I just bought this used). How would I determine if this is the case ?? I don't know much about these things, but have heard many cars, even an economy car like this have available aftermarket computer mods. I would like to get thisw back to stock.

Not sure what you mean by clowning with the computer. If for some reason they were able to alter the software in the computer, they would have either have flashed the EEPROM with some sort of modified calibration or would have piggy backed some sort of performance chip. I highly doubt it, but the only way you would be able to tell is by inspecting the PCM harness and looking for a piggy back or connecting up a high end scan tool and looking at the calibration number of the software flashed into the PCM.

Just curious, but have you had your mechanic take it for a spin?

I believe there is a whole industry devoted to doing just those kinds of things with car computers, actually. But still seems like something else is controlling the throttle at times of acceleration. There is no way this is as stock. If that were the case very very few of them would have ever sold. I pretty much have full power at 1/3 accelerator. It ramps up very very quickly above abt 2000 rpm (or less) starting at abt 20% pedal. Makes it very hard to modulate precisely, esp. when dropping the clutch. Have driven over 1.5 million miles in man. trans cars so know what to expect.

Curious, but if you hold the accelerator pedal at 1/3 what is the position of the throttle blade?

You could loosen the throttle cable nut and then have someone hold the pedal to the floor. Then adjust the cable nut till the throttle blade just touches the wide open throttle position . That would probably set the cable correctly.

I opened up the intake there to see if everything was OK and it seems to be. Interestingly there is a passage that bypasses the throttle valve that apparently is there for idle. If it is blocked the engine quickly dies, though it seems much wider (abt 1/2 in diameter) than I think would be needed to support idle. Someone suggested a throttle position sensor might be at fault here, I might try that. I should say that the engine does vary somewhat in its behavior (both when dropping the clutch and in general) in that it does not ramp up in power so wildly as I described and acts more normally with a gradual progression of power, though most of the time it is the former.

You could have a TPS issue, but a faulty TPS would cause hesitation, stumbling, and possible idle issues. You can sweep the TPS with a volt meter or lab scope to see if it has any dead spots. Not a common failure item.

Have two new things to report. First, I disconnected, cleaned, and reconnected a bunch of engine sensors (though none seemed particularly dirty or corroded) with engine off. Upon starting and running, I noticed a difference right away. It was much more driveable than before, though still not quite right. Just now the crazy power ramp-up happened a bit further down in the throttle, and was now probably a bit less rapid. Also picked up a good 2-3 mpg from this too. (I waited until I had gone through 3 tankfuls of gas to ascertain this. After the first subsequent fillup I thought the gauge must have been stuck.) But like I said still not really right. And then I went to change the sparkplugs recently I found my suspicions about the computer were correct. It has definitely been messed with. It is not firing the coils in stock order (and whoever put the wires on knew the right order to put them) I was lucky I noticed this before I got too far and lost this info. So this is where it stands now. Any further thoughts will be appreciated.

So, you're saying that the firing order was wrong all along and that caused you to have too much power too soon?
Were the wires connected to the wrong coil or just the wrong pole on a single coil?

No, of course not. It is because someone knew which coils (which are marked with the cylinder No.) went to which cylinders (now NOT the No. on the coil) that it wasn't (isn't) misfiring (in which case the car would have been inoperable). My point is the change in order is evidence of a computer reprogramming, which of course included many other modifications.

I don't know what you're smoking but you need to put the pipe down.

I'm confused. The firing order of that engine is going to be 1-3-4-2. That is built into the engine mechanically. Changing the software in the engine controller isn't going to change the mechanical design of the engine.

You can swap 1 and 4 or 2 and 3 plug wires, but you probably won't detect any difference in the running of the engine.

Not only does the spark have to occur in the correct firing order, but the valve timing and pistons' positions also determine the firing order in which combustion events occur:

Maybe I am assuming too much here. I assume a coil is only fired when needed, based on the signal from the camshaft pos. sensor (as processed and routed by the computer and its programming). Maybe they fire twice per cycle ? I don't know. Tell me. If you did what you described with an older car with a distributor it would be practically undriveable (in fact people have seriously damaged engines by misrouting the HT wires).

Well I finally realized what is going on here. It is so obvious I don't know why I didn't see it sooner. The intake (the throttle valve I inspected before) is way too large for the engine size. Not any modification, just the way it was made. Overengineered idiocy (like firing spark plugs twice as often as needed). So they can claim say 5 HP more at like 5500 rpm or something (which I could drive the vehicle 100K mi and never use once) the low end is tough to control like it is, at least with the manual trans. Doesn't help that the car has some sort of a racing clutch in it either. I realized that in carbureted trim this engine (it is a descendent of the Mitsubishi 1600cc engine that debuted in the 1970 Dodge Colt) would like a 32x34 mm barrel arrangement with maybe half the cross sectional area this intake has. So of course when I have the pedal down about a third if the way the engine has nearly full power, at least at normal driving rpm's. Still I otherwise like the car, it has good performance and now in the warm weather driving it carefully I get abt 40mpg, which is what I got it for.

Unless the engine has been modified by someone, that throttle body and induction system is going to be designed to fit that engine by the manufacture. Maybe your trying to compare it to an old carbed engine that isn't as responsive.

Yes, thanks for your reply. There is definitely some truth to that, but frankly I don't think it was just that much of a priority. What is it, 90% of cars are automatics now or something like that ? (at least in US). I just couldn't see how the engine was getting that much air, and now I know. Bear in mind this throttle, which is over 50mm in diameter, has TWICE the cross-sectional area of two 25mm chokes that the engine would typically be drawing through in carbed trim. It had been years since I held a carburetor in my hands and I kind of forgot what they were like. But the greatest difference between this engine and the older ones I mentioned is the 4V cylinder head this one has (I would count that as an even bigger difference than the fuel injection vs. carburetion) . They would be remiss if they didn't adapt induction in other ways to take advantage of this, I know. I would like to drive this in automatic trim, that would be really nice I think now (I would not have said that about an older small car). Thats what this is really designed for, I think. Though it wouldn't have been that hard to, say, have the throttle cable wrap on a cam instead of on a simple cylinder to give a variable opening rate in the manual trans cars. And at pedal down they would have the throttle open so they could get that final peak of power. Now I was told when I got the car that it had had a recent clutch replacement and I didn't have any trouble believing that. Very touchy, very grabby. I thought this would fade with use and it really hasn't. I should have mentioned that it is practically impossible to start the car on a hill without spinning the wheels some. I have a choice of either that or stalling the engine, basically. Otherwise I like the car, though I can't understand why on earth anyone would put power steering in such a small car; if I keep it I am going to look into putting in an older model's manual rack and get back that feel of the road I like.

That's ridiculous. You've been watching too many cartoons.

Thanks for the feedback. I just replaced the fuel filter and nothing changed. Also I got the check engine light trouble code: P1128 which is Manufacturer Central fuel airmetering valve. Please note this trouble code has been on since I purchased the car (2 years ago), and this has only been a real problem for the past few months, so it may be unrelated. Next I am going to get the fuel pressure and decide if I need to replace the pump. Any advice?

P1128 Sets when the ECM has seen long-term fuel trim at 10-15% lean for a period of 30 seconds or more. This is also a 2 drive cycle code; meaning the ECM has to see this on two consecutive drives. A drive cycle is the engine is started, engine up to temperature, driven X number of minutes, above X number miles per-hour and then stopped and engine turned off.
Causes for setting the code; anything that will make the computer think the engine is running to lean for to long, even after the computer has tried to compensate by adding more fuel.
Things like vacuum leaks, exhaust leaks in front of the O2 sensor, defective O2, dirty injector(s), low fuel pressure, misfires or the computer itself.
Vacuum leaks can be anything from a (fairly large) vacuum line cracked or off, intake manifold or its gasket, EVAP purge solenoid leaking.
Exhaust leak; between the firing of the cylinders a small vacuum is created in the exhaust system. If there is a hole in the exhaust, air will be sucked into the exhaust; the O2 sensor will react to this un-burnt oxygen and send out a lean signal to the ECM.
There more things but I could go on and on and not even touch on the cause of your car’s issue.
When you have the fuel pressure tested; it may test ok at approx 50psi; if the engine has not sat for the 12 hours; you’ll need the gauge attached during one of the car’s little fits.

Dan.