Shop Cadillac Intake Manifolds

First thing that came to mind is ..try advancing the distributor and see if it gets more power...
Maybe we have a timing chain/gear issue.
Also check the pickup coil wiring inside the distributor..fray and cause driveability issue.
Catalytic converter restricted?
Strong smell of fuel?...have you checked for leaks. hoses,lines,pump...
Fuel delivery problem ,as in not enough fuel can cause car to take forever to get power,especially right after cold start.
Bad carburetor?
Has the car been sitting any length of time?
Take a fuel sample?


Just throwing some things at you

i replaced thr everything on the distributer including [plugs and wires, cap, coil ,pickup,rotor i have tried advancing the timing in 2 degree increments to no avail seeing as it seems to die on hills i will check the fuel pump
thank you for the reply

To add..

I had an Oldsmobile back when that had a condition similar...took forever to get up to speed...I could get out and walk faster...LOL
....but it had a lean misfire to it after cold start and big time driveability issue cold..would fall flat on its face on hard acceleration,had to ease the gas to get to speed ....not as bad when warm but still noticable...

I found the steel fuel line back near the pump area that had a slight split in it...never ever showed a sign of a leak..I traced the line front to rear and couldn't see any sign of a problem....ran it on an external fuel source,in those days you could,..problem cleared...
So I removed all the lines and inspected and found the split...man it was so small ,barely could see it...put on all new lines,steel and rubber....
Ran like a champ after that...
My point is...sometimes that even tho you don't see a leak,it can still be a fuel delivery /volume problem...

Just a thought...

There so many possibilities that could be causing this; it hard to know where to begin.
Is the automatic choke coming off all the way? If not that could explain the fuel smell and low speed stalling, plus the interlock for the “four barrel” would still be on, holding the secondary throttle closed causing the lack of power.
The power valve in the carb might be stuck/seized in one position again causing a low rpm flood and the loss in power, due to lack of fuel for the secondary’s.
The throttle position sensors were famous for failing with these carbs; they placed the sensor inside the carb, in the float bowl. Fuel would find its way into the sensor causing them to either go open or short to reference voltage. Regardless of which way it failed the computer wouldn’t know how far your foot was or wasn’t into the throttle; thus not adjusting timing or changing the dwell on the power valve’s solenoid on time.
Then it might not even be a carb problem; possibly a restricted exhaust/plugged converter; if exhaust can’t get out air can’t get in.
Then there’s engine mechanical; ie a timing chain that is very loose or jumped a tooth. You can still set ignition timing by cranking the distributor around but the valve timing would still be late/retarded.
Just a few thought off the top.

Dan.

Look like we're all thinking about the same here guys.

"Ayup" .......... or "EH" in Canadian!

T

Hi,

Just hunted parts as a clue. Two different sources. Seems the 4.1 didn't use a hose for bypass system. Could be that it's metal, built into water pump, or isn't a specific part # but rather generic cooling system hose.

Roughly 1% of the engines for these were a 5.7 diesel - I think based on an Olds block which was just a couple inch piece of hose from water pump to thermostat if I recall correctly. You would just use heater hose (generic) and cut a piece of so and they are a pill as the two spouts are so close together you need to either heat the piece up so it's soft or remove the thermostat housing if I recall.

Not an issue as you said it wasn't that engine. It may be a metal tube that's popular to go bad. When back at parts store see what they are referring to and take a pic of your water pump with you,

T

I thought it might be something similar to what I've seen before where there was a 3 or 4 inch tube near the thermostat housing that where the heater hoses connected. This one doesn't have that but since this is a special order part I wanted to try to find out for sure. I'll probably just pull the pump and take it with me when I order the new one.

Thanks,

Steve

Autozone list two pumps?

Without built in bypass tube looks like this.........

/

With bypass tube looks like this.......

/

I'm not seeing the total difference? Can't always go by the pics but that site is pretty good. Apparently neither list a hose??

Here's the site..........

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsProduct.jsp?itemIdentifier=183731_139639_0_&skuDescription=Duralast+New+/+Water+Pump&brandName=Duralast+New&displayName=Water+Pump&categoryNValue=14399999&sortType=&store=5151&isSearchByPartNumber=false&fromWhere=&fromString=search&counter=0&itemId=95-0&navValue=14300095&filterByKeyWord=Water+Pump&productId=183731&searchText=Water+Pump&categoryDisplayName=Collision%2C+Body+Parts+%26+Hardware&parentId=43-0

Check others too, NAPA on line, O'Reileys, Advance Auto - anyplace that shows good pics could save you a hassle - having the old on the counter helps the most but call ahead to see if they have it. Real parts stores if you call by 10am if it's warehoused locally you'll have it by 2pm or at least places I deal with. Good luck,

T

Of course I'm not looking at the exact situation but have been thru zillions over the ions. A multi bolted pulley should be loosened with belt still on or use a stud and move along. If just one in center it may be pressed on so you would look to remove the whole thing if possible. Others have holes for access thru the pulley to something behind it.

Watch out with ratcheting box wrenches if used! If not the switch and reverse type (like GearWrench makes) you can back off a bolt and be unable to get wrench out - a stalemate of sorts!

Air tools and PB (power blaster penetrating oil) can be your best friend. Takes basic understanding how NOT to break off bolts! An art in itself sometimes as extracting flush broken ones can be a nightmare. Ones that are real sticky but have moved some ok go back and tighten carefully back and forth with more PB on threads. Sucks when they break when almost out!

Look hard again at the pulley in the way. Whole unit must cooperate somehow. It may have bracketing back/over to under a motor mount or something to cause bad language!

Use all caution not to bend up a pulley trying to hold it for a bolt. If bent up it will need to be replaced.

Can take a bunch of tools for what seems simple.

Make damn sure you get the correct water pump matched on the counter as you sure don't want to be back there again. Hang in there,

T

Tom,
Thanks for the advice. I already have have the car apart and then found out I had one more bolt behind this pulley. The center bolt wouldn't break at all and all the belts and everything are already off. It started to get dark so I loaded it up with PB and called it a night. I'll try again tomorrow. There's no holes or anything in this pulley to hold it from spinning so I might have to get a little imaginative. Maybe I'll get lucky in the morning.

Get some rest and think about the approach in the morning. I'll be away most of am but whoever here or wherever watching may have ideas.

What does this pulley that's a pain go to? It would help me find out how it might come out,

T

It doesn't really go to anything. It's just for the belts to go around. It sits under what I believe is the power steering pump. There's a skinny belt that connects the two of these and then a wider belt that goes to the AC compressor. I took some pictures but I haven't figured out how to post them here yet. If I can I'll post some pics.

Steve

Tom,

Hopefully I just uploaded some pictures as attachments. I couldn't figure out how else to do it.

&size=128It looks like that worked. Hope that helps a little.

Steve

I guess that didn't work after all.

Pic posting from your own stuff can be a pill. It won't take stuff from my own puter here but will from near anywhere else. A setting or some geeky thing that prohibits my own?? Try them as an attachment and then I can post them,

T

I tried attachments in post #10 and just tried again here. Hopefully these will work.
(edit - post pics direct - don't ask how or why this works?? Nice pics for archives - Tom)

http://autoforums.carjunky.com/Automotive_Repair_C1/Heating_or_AC_Issues_F8/Re%3A_Cadillac_DeVille_water_pump_bypass_tube_P68115/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=577;t=search_engine

http://autoforums.carjunky.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=578;t=search_engine
http://autoforums.carjunky.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=579;t=search_engine

It rained all say today so I didn't do anything. The bolt that won't come loose is behind the fan blade but you can see the pulley I'm talking about.

Steve

Not sure what you are trying to do here but what you have marked in those pictures is the power steering pulley which is pressed on to the pump. There is no bolt in the end. That is just a hex hole in the end of the shaft. The one above it is the air pump. You need a special puller to pull that pulley off the pump.

The pulley I have marked pulley, is that what you're saying is pressed on the power steering pump? It doesn't look like there's anything at all behind it. What's the thing I have marked "power steering?" ?

Steve

That's a vacuum pump that is labeled p/s pump.

On this model the p/s pump pulley needs to be removed to r&r the water pump. The pulley is pressed onto the pump and special puller is required to remove it... Some parts houses will rent the puller.......

Posted the pics direct - came out huge but nice archives. PS pump pulley is pressed on as said. Rent-able? Yes at many parts outlets or perhaps not that expensive - I forgot what mine cost

Use of temps can help with pressed stuff - races, pulleys etc., put part you need smaller in your freezer if allowed (CAUTION! CAN CAUSE DOMESTIC PROBLEMS!) and they'll go back on/in better,

T

Thanks for the tips so far. Now I remember why I quit working on my own cars. I had a puller and tried pulling off the pulley from the power steering pump and it just twisted the arms on the puller. I had another puller from when I was a machinist so I tried that one. I had to grind just a little bit off the legs and it fit perfect over the end of the pulley. This is a solid piece with nothing to twist and nice and short so the pressure was nice and uniform. The legs fit perfect in the groove on the end of the pulley and all it did was start to bend up and cut through the end of the pulley. I tried tapping the pulley while the pressure was pulling. It was soaked with power blaster 2 days ago and again this morning so that had plenty of time to sit.

This pulley still doesn't want to come off. Is it safe to use heat on this? Will I damage the pump if I use heat? I really need some help here guys.

I've been working on my own cars for 30 years and I'm restoring a '52 MG so I'm not a total amatuer. I also built a couple muscle cars back in the 70's & 80's. I did stop doing my own work when I could finally afford newer cars about 10 years ago but now I'm disabled and divorced and had to buy an older car agian. I do have the background and all the basics even if I need to be reminded of some of this stuff once in a while. I've always taught myself so don't always know the proper names or terms but the basics are there. I do appreciate any help you can give me.

Thanks a lot,

Steve

I hope you didn't try to use a jaw type puller to get that off. all that will do is bend and destroy the pulley. There is a special puller that grabs the lip on the hub area.

Thanks, I went to the parts store to rent one and they didn't have one to rent but tried to sell me a jaw type that said power steering puller for $30 so I tried my jaw type because it was the similar. It didn't work obviously. I can't afford to spend $30 on something I'll never use again but I may not have a choice.

Thanks for the pics, I know what to look for now.

Steve

If you live near an AutoZone or Advanced Auto parts, most of them have loaner or rental programs.

most likely if you used a 3 jaw on it the pulley is trashed. I know some excellent parts guys that know what they are talking about, and I know some whose hands I have to hold just to get an order in. Problem is when you aren't familiar with whats needing to happen and don't deal with a certain store enough to know who is good and who isn't. I hate to sound mean, but when I'm busy and call my local NAPA or O'Reillys I hang up if a certain employee that I know isn't competent answers. I call back later. They may be barely able to find an oil filter or something simple, but if they were that good at working on cars they honestly wouldn't be parts guys. They'd be mechanics. Some of them used to be mechanics and got into the parts store due to health problems. Those are the guys you want. Especially the old timers. They know all the tricks. But when a guy tells you that a 3 jaw is just as good as a power steering puller he should be taken out in the moonlight and beaten with hammers. If a 3 jaw was good enough, why would they make a special puller for power steering pulleys? Also remember that it takes a special tool to put it on without wrecking it as well. Like Hammer said, many parts store loan tools and you need to talk with them about those tools before you blow too much coin on this.

Thanks to everyone who helped. I bought a puller and it was a piece of cake to pull the pulley and reinstall later. I'll probably never use this tool again but it was worth the $35 just to get the job done right.

Steve

Thanks for the follow up. $35 bucks is nothing in this biz. Have a boat load of "one-time" tools and can't do certain things without them. Way it goes,

T

Before you even take that pulley off, rotate it and measure whether there is any runout to the pulley at all. If the pulley was bent at all from that jaw puller, then plan on getting another one before it goes back together. That one is ruined.

Steve,

Hammer said it - you can't fake what kind of puller and get the right one. It's been that style for those for ions, looks just like the one I have predating the invention of the wheel!

Forget $30 if that's all it is. (seems too low to me) That will look cheap vs a new pump and pulley if bent/damaged! If you can't rent it, sell the tool, buy a decent one and it will sell but make sure you are done and all is working.

You may need that tool if pulley is trashed now just to replace it so think about owning it if you want to fix your own stuff,

T

You're not going to know until you test it. Try jumping power to the trigger wire at the starter to test it once you know you have a good battery.

Thanx! Is starter under car? Which wire would be trigger wire? Do I connect positive cable to it and simply ground the negative cable? I remember old starters had a post that the positive wire went to.

It has a small wire going to the starter that when energized with 12v, it triggers the starter.

Hey Hammer Time, Where in God's name is the starter on this car? I've looked at a few schematics and don't see how it can be where they say it is. I'm looking on the top, driver's side toward the fire wall. I can't find any videos of the starter being removed for this model. Are there any sites where I can see diagrams of this. Thanx!

It's on th back side of the engine and probably will have to be accessed from below. At least one of the bolts is likely accessed from above though.




http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/Wrenchtech/Starter01accent.jpeg

OMG, what a pain in the ars that was! Every starter I've ever replaced was right smack underneath in clear view. I couldn't even see all of this starter when I was under it. And I now have so many cuts and scratches on my arms, from trying to reach up thru from the bottom, that it looks like I got in a fight with an alley cat. LOL!

Anywho, mission accomplished! The short, thick wire going from a starter terminal back to the body , or into it, was broke in half. My son had to go to work so, he missed out on all the fun. :(

Thanks Hammer Time!

It is kind of weird, but of all the Northstars I worked on, i've never had to replace a starter. You would think with all the heat of being under the intake the starters would have a high failure rate.

chechk vacumm line side of carb to trans will not up shift and will slam on down shift modulater is on side of trans held in by bolt and clip like dist.clip cable contols normal speed up shifts along with gov. on tail shaft inside exten housing