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CarJunky AutoAdvice

Engine will not start after it is hot

Showing 2 out of 9 Posts | Show 7 Hidden Posts
Question From carlos402000 on Engine will not start after it is hot

Volvo 2001 S80 2.9 non-turbo 95,000 miles.....scanner shows no faults, I have replaced MAF, crank sensor, cam sensor, cleaned Throttle Body, injectors. Good 55-60 psi on fuel gauge, good spark. After sitting in the garage for 3-5 days starts first try and runs great until it gets hot and you shut it off and try to start it right away. It will not start again for another few days. I press the accelerator a couple times but does not make any difference. I don't know if it gets flooded but sometimes when I press the accelerator to help it start I smell gasoline. Going crazy as I don't know what else to try. I start it every few days to keep battery charged up. Anybody with Volvo knowledge, please assist. Thank you!

Response From Hammer Time

When you checked the fuel pressure did it hold rest pressure when shut off?

Response From carlos402000 Top Rated Answer

I have not checked for fuel pressure leak afterwards. I checked it during engine off for a few days and read right at 55 psi when turning ignition switch on and pump activated. While engine was running was up at approx. 60 psi.

Response From kev2

I am not sure you understand - we are asking for a pressure leak down test with KOEO.
start engine check fuel pressure, then turn engine OFF and the quickly turn ign ON - KOEO key on eng off - this will energize the system as we look for a pressure drop..ie dropped Xpsi in 5minutes. THen key OFF again observe pressure drop.

Response From carlos402000

After a few days the car started right up. when I turned ignition "On" fuel pressure went up to 55 PSI and started fine. When engine started pressure went up and stayed steady at 60 PSI. Ran good and then I turned engine "Off" and quickly the ignition "on" and gauge read 10 PSI and dropped down to "0" within 5 minutes approximately. Turned ignition back "On" and it went up to only 10 PSI and not higher than that. No wonder it does not start! Be aware that I also replaced the fuel pressure regulator also back then. One thing that I noticed when I was screwing in the fuel pressure gauge on to the fuel injectors rack valve.....the valve started rotating with the fuel gauge nozzle at the same time. I believe the valve is not supposed to rotate base and all.......I know pressure must be lost through it as it is not seal properly. I thank you in advance for your assistance!

Response From carlos402000

I clearly understand now that you broke it down for me. I will do that and let you now what the results are. I thank you kindly.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Sorry if I missed what you meant when any testing. Do so WHEN it has failed and wont start not when it seems to run fine it could test fine?


Spark? Dunno if a hard one to put an in-line tester on this or not. I have a few and for intermittent no starts like this ones I have you can leave on and drive the car then with a helper if dead but cranking see no spark. I'd rather not leave stuff on but have had then so erratic and didn't stay dead long needed it where ever the @#$%ing car left me!


Had to know. Fix on a clunker was more in parts than I was willing so that now junked - sorry now I didn't fix it. Ugly sucker but a great beater car for lousy weather all legal and fine otherwise but not putting up with surprises like that for anything, clunker or not.


Might have been a K-D inline tester for many type of high voltage wires to a plug or coil to a wire type thing,


T

Response From kev2

scanner will read ALL codes - low end code readers will NOT read all esp so called manufactures specific P1000 and up.
Check fuel pressure then with KOEO observe pressure leak down.
When A no start - is there spark at several plugs?


PS pumping the accelerator is useless TRY holding it full down... called clear flood.

Response From carlos402000

Understand that I should check fuel pressure after shutting it off to see if it holds it? I have also tried holding pedal fully to the floor but no difference either. I have not checked for all plugs sparking after shutting off engine and trying to restart. I just started it today so now I have two wait a couple days to restart it again. I should try it then I guess to check for all spark plugs sparking and fuel pressure leak if any?

ignition wire short?

Showing 3 out of 12 Posts | Show 9 Hidden Posts
Question From carver on ignition wire short?

Actually my car is a boat.77 Carver with ford 351 w. My question concerns the wire from the ignition switch to the coil. When I connect a test light from the battery side of the switch and ground it lights brightly. When I remove the lead from ground and connect to the ignition wire (removed from switch) it still lights but dimly. Shouldnt it not light at all? Does this indicate a short to ground? It does the same thing even if I disconnect it from the coil and elecric choke. isnt it just a wire leading from the ignition switch into the engine compartment>Any feedback appreciated

Response From Hammer Time

Let's approach this differently. What are you trying to fix? What problem do you have?

Response From carver

Well it runs well once it starts but it is very difficult to start. Also it seems to only start when you let go of the key. wont start when in the start position. Fairly certain its an ignition problem. New carb, fuel pump,filters etc. Starting fluid does nothing. Checked for spark during cranking and got none. Replaced points and condensor with magnetic electronic ignition, new plugs, wires,cap, rotor,coil.Set timing to10 BTC when it was running. As I said, runs really well, just a bear to start.

Response From Hammer Time

What is the situation here? Did you do this mod yourself? Do you have a wiring diagram for the boat or the new ignition system?

Response From kev2

did you check for saprk at several plugs?
Is this a carb or injected engine?

As hammer asked - wiring diagram for new ignition system-
is there just the one wire -neg coil to dist?
the dist would also need 12v and a ground - yes?



Think of the system this way-
The coil will appear as a path to ground, therefor the dimlight- when the ground is opened (points open) the electron flow will jump and produce the spark we want...

Response From Tom Greenleaf

The easy solution is to take that junk out and put it back they way it ran properly and end the foolishness.


Points start on full bat+ voltage obviously not getting that and electronic get that all the time which is why it runs when you let go of the key.


IDK exactly what set up you have now but it's not compatible with the rest of the system clearly. Look at the coil. Bet it has two smaller connections for start mode and for run mode and is all confused now as it probably doesn't know what to do with that "S" vs "R" mode now,


T

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Beat me with post kev2. Points run on lower voltage while running. 6v vehicles didn't need that, 12v ignitions w points did. Said that right away it's resisted down for running "R" and full for "S" but running it's lowering the voltage and is killing this new set up slowly or instantly,


T

Response From carver

Thanks for the input guys ( and constructive criticism ) I think. First off, the electronic ignition is a MARINE simple slide onto the dist shaft under the rotor. A magnetic pickup goes into the hole where the points were attached. Many many boaters are using these. Also it is the original marine dist. The coil was purchased (MARINE) with the ignition. It has internal resistor. The instructions were to remove the ballast resistor which I did. All these were specific to my engine. Ford went to electronic ignition the following year in it's marine ( Volvo Penta ) applications. All I was attempting to do was slightly update not blow up. Today after jumper wiring from the battery to the coil it fired up immediately and ran perfectly. I re-started it numerous times without a problem. Tomorrow I am going to run a new wire from the ignition switch to the coil. Pretty much what I expected, just wanted a little education on using a test light. Thanks guys

Response From Hammer Time

I think you're on the right track. You need power out of the ignition switch to both the module and the coil in both "start" and "run' positions.

Response From Tom Greenleaf Top Rated Answer

OK - Learn how the standard wiring for 12v ignition is set up near universally for distributors with points and condenser. Know that points transfer metal if voltage isn't correct so it's run thru a resistor for "RUN" and all battery power for start mode that switches right when you let go of the key.


Now you've altered that but direct wiring is now according to what you purchased to do this NOT as intended which is why it doesn't work! THERE IS ZERO PERFORMANCE BENEFIT OF ELECTRONIC VS POINTS STYLE IGNITION FOR BOATING APPLICATIONS unless you are specifically going for some new performance which was already at hand by the time this boat was made new but would be higher voltage and harder to prevent expositions from stray sparks so boats were late on this. Ignitions are by the Volvo Penta makers and engineers not FORD who just made the block same as others.


I've taken OUT more nutty set ups mostly cars to make them run better the way they were designed mostly CDI crap (capacitor discharge ignitions) that kept points AND put that in. They didn't gain a thing except you do check points at least once a year or more all depending on time and exposure to elements how used.


Just because "everyone" does it doesn't mean squat. I've owned and driven small thru mega million buck yachts extensively and worst problem was telling anyone you are a mechanic! There's always some stupid something wrong with a boat aptly named a hole into the water into which one pours MONEY bei it a stink potter (power boat) or blow boat (sail boat) they all cost bucks and are a lot of work as you must know.


Gotta go. Pay attention to instructions from the maker if you must proceed with this but expect no benefit,


Tom

Response From kev2

trying to remember old 'points' systems - coming back slowly
Do you have 2 wires on the coil + terminal?
often one was 12v used only to START...
the other was a reduced voltage used only in RUN...
A ballast resistor OR a resistor wire- easy test with a DVOM.

the new ign may require a specific voltage - It was NOT unuasual for one of those feeds to be open causing something like you describe...

again my colleagues question - wiring diagram?

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Total warning with boats sport. You may have way overdone anything intended changing out ignition from points which carried on long after this model year in marine applications for good reasons.


Why did you dump point for electronic ignition? Differently wired thru a resistor not direct so you screwed up already. No real gain in changing OE intentions and all risk. If you can't deal with checking and setting points then get out of boating in fact FORD in general got out of making engines for marine use TMK. Many didn't use distributors used in land vehicles at all for good reasons.


#1 with boats is NO SPARKS on anything. Special electric everything all thru them or risk the big bang - kaBoooom!


Solenoids, alternators, starters, ignition, plain switches all thru it are NOT automotive yet look about the same and some work. 351W suggests an inboard enclosed engine or one of a dual screw set up in bilge. Really want a fire with that much fuel around?


T

volvo electrical problems- can anyone help?

Showing 2 out of 5 Posts | Show 3 Hidden Posts
Question From Nite hawk on volvo electrical problems- can anyone help?

Howdy!
I have a 1980 Volvo 240 series, standard,236,000 km, runs pretty well, but have had minor electrical problems, in the past, every 4-6 months the heater fan fuse would crash, and when replaced work for another 4-6 months.
However we started having alot more serious problems. When I would hit the turn signal, the amp light would come on and buzz and the engine would die, and then it would not want to re-start. checked and changed the battery, tested the alternator, the tester said it was fine.
When it would happen would let it set for bit, and then MAYBE it would start.
IT would crank fine, but no fire or fuel seemed to be getting through. (fuel injected)
Like I said we changed the battery, and wire brushed and greased and tightened the 3 grounds under the hood, and it seemed to run fine, and then one morning on the way to work,hit the turn signal and it died and had to walk home.
Thankfully it was a short distance.
Someone suggested that because it was fuel injected there might be a computer that needed to be re-set, so the battery was un- hooked overnight. we also polished the posts on the inside of the distributor cap. now it seems to be working again for the present time.
However the electrical episodes was sporadic in nature before, so not sure if it is "cured" or not. The only other thing I can think of is that I always plug the cell phone in the cig lighter to charge, ( it said it was charging ok) and wonder if that might be an issue, and haven't plugged it in for a while.
We live several hundred miles from any Volvo dealer, and live in a remote area, and I have to drive long distances to work so as winter approaches , want the car reliable again.
I actually called one volvo dealer asking the parts department if there might be a wiring harness that was available, and was told such a thing didn't exist!!
We argued, as I do know such a thing does exist, and he finally relented and said that they do exist, but only in different sections and would have to have one made up for an older car.
I also noticed that the back window de-icer line in the glass doesn't seem to work anymore. Now I can live with that problem, but the engine dying at an intersection and not wanting to re-start because I hit the signal switch is a problem that I need help with!!
Would really appreciate any thoughts!!!
Thanks
Nite Hawk

Response From Nite hawk Top Rated Answer

Howdy!
New developments
Tightened the belt, no more squeals, was headed home, we slowed down and it died...
re-started the first time, got underway, and again slowed down, no signal and and died again, this time it wouldn't re-start, and had to be pushed out of the road.
After while and lots of trying, and after it sat for a while it finally started and we made to the turn at home, again slowed down, this time with a signal and again it died., and no start.
My son was tinkering with the key in the ignition, and noticed that the dash lights wouldn't come on, but after jiggling the key if the dash lights would come on, it would start.
This time it blew a tail light fuse, ( second time after a dying episode this happened)
We were wondering if maybe the there was a problem with the ignition switch that might be killing everything...
Now I don't know if the ignition is somehow connected to the signal and tail lights , and maybe if there is a short in one area it is crashing everything??
I was reading the other day on the internet that the 1980-88 volvo's had bad qualtiy engine wire harnesses, and the web site was recommending to replace the wire harnessing..
Now of course this site sells harnesses, so not sure if this is the truth or not. appreciate your thoughts..
Will check out more about the testers -thanks.

Response From Nite hawk

It is possible its not charging properly, even though the battery is new, and the alternator rebuilt earlier in the year. I question the belt tightness on the alternator, have what seems to be a belt squeal from time to time, and I question the possibility of maybe the negative battery cable might possibly need replaced, but not sure if that has any bearing on the problem or not.. Not knowledgeable on car electrics , that's why I am asking wiser heads than mine what they think.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

I didn't go look up layout but check that belt. You should not be able to turn alternator with bare hands by the fins (everything off and cool please) or it's too loose and squealing suggests.


Reason I said cell phone charges meaning nothing as it's power output is .3VOLTS not crap as things go. You said car dies out with just directionals. Just the power a couple light bulbs take to light is probably 500 times the power a cell phone could ever need. That little bit is taking (high bet on this) away enough power that the engine can't run right or at all never mind running more power items like blower motor, headlights, rear window defrosters and the like. Starting the engine takes a ton of power expressed as amps. Think like a water hose you could use a pin hole straw or a garden hose and which would deliver the most for you? Same basics for this much of your troubles.


This isn't rocket science yet with your car. Get a voltmeter ($10US) available if you just look around at larger department stores like Walmart and others.
That and get a "floating battery charger, maintainer" for cheap too - about $20US. Takes a long time perhaps 24 hours to charge but will indicate the battery is fully charged. Voltmeter should read 12.6 or more volts right then and settle to that. Just those two things you can diagnose a lot. Add to that a plain scratch awl type test light, LED ones are now under $10 bucks and you can do quite a bit of basics now.


Check voltage on outside of battery clamps and one posts for any volt difference say with headlights on or something that uses some power. Should be the same.


Belt again. Didn't check if self adjust or not and doesn't matter which way but has to be snug enough. Self tensioned has a limit for belt stretch or plain bad and manually tensioned you do yourself or have done but don't over do it either - know the difference or it's too hard on bearing on belt driven items. If more than one check and or replace/adjust as needed. Find out if unsure in person with a mechanic.


All your issues point to simple inadequate power to run properly and belt(s), battery and that it charges is the key to it all,


T

Response From Tom Greenleaf

This plain smacks of charging system not up to par or working at all! Belt way too loose, alternator problem, or new or not battery no good. You gotta charge a battery first or should before testing anything. Using your cell phone as an indicator mean absooooolutely nothing!


T