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CarJunky AutoAdvice

92 Eagle Talon Electrical problems

Showing 3 out of 3 Posts
Question From fishinhic on 92 Eagle Talon Electrical problems

1992 Eagle Talon, 1.6 DOHC Turbo, 250,000 miles. Car died, wouldn't start until we put jumper cables on, as soon as a cable was disconnected the car would die, put the cable back on and it would run off other vehicle. Pulled the Alternator, had it tested, it failed. Put new Alternator on and now not much works, only lights, door chime, and dome light. No other dash warning lights work, radio does not work, nor does the heater fan. Checked all fuses and fusable links, they are ok. Tried to jump and push start the car and there is no fire. We replaced the battery about a week before the car died because there was a problem with it, After putting Alternator I even tried to switch batteries, nothing is working. Could this be in the ignition switch? Please help, I am lost. Thank you in advance for your help.

Response From Hammer Time Top Rated Answer

Check all your main fuses/fusible links first. Then check the battery connections for any small wires that you neglected to hook back up.

Response From fishinhic

Checked all fuses, and fusable links, checked for loose wires, replaced the ignition switch, still nothing. Could this be in a relay?

1996 Eagle Vision blinkers not working

Showing 2 out of 34 Posts | Show 32 Hidden Posts
Question From RoboDisko on 1996 Eagle Vision blinkers not working

Ok so my 96 Eagle Vision 3.5L ESi has some blinkers that wont work. It's kind of weird, the car wouldn't start, so my dad blamed the battery wire because it was really greasy, and replaced it. It didn't start after being replaced, but then a few minutes later it did. And when it did, the blinkers weren't working.

I've looked for the problem a bit. The parking lamps, which use the same bulbs, work fine. I think the relay is ok, And I haven't found any obvious wiring issues under the hook near the replaced positive wire.

Where do you guys suggest looking for the blinker issue?

Response From Discretesignals

Hazards work? Do any bulbs light up when you activate the turn signals?

Response From RoboDisko

Forgot to say that the hazard lights do not work. Nothing happens when you move the blinker lever thingy. No lights on the dash, no lights exterior lights.

Response From Discretesignals

Have you checked for power at the fuses that protect the turn signals and hazard lamps circuits?

check your PM

Response From RoboDisko

Yes the fuses are all fine. The diagram you sent me should help.

Response From Discretesignals

You also need to check for power to those fuses. A visual inspection of them won't tell you if you have power to the fuses or not.

edit: when you check power at those fuses make sure your circuit is powered up...this means have the turn signals/hazards on.

Response From RoboDisko

There is a voltage on the fuse, however it isn't quite battery voltage. I think it was around 11.5V, and the battery was at around 12.5 When I turned the blinker or the hazard lights on, the voltage increased to like 11.6V. I've pullout out the combination flasher, but I don't really know how to check it. It acts like a relay. I put a normal relay in instead and it still didn't do anything. What should I blame next?

Response From Tom Greenleaf

? Bit confused from top post. What came first, blinkers not working or car not starting or please explain that. Car didn't start for a while with new battery then did! There's a problem still there or with body grounds - something doesn't add up.

When it didn't start did it crank the engine?

Not sure but suspect an original problem might have been poor body grounds - a guess so far and hope nothing more blew out messing with the battery and cables and not convinced they are right yet,

T

Response From RoboDisko

Yes, It is pretty confusing. I'll tell you the quick version of the story of the car again to try to explain.
One day car wouldn't start. Key turned, some clicks, but nothing from the starter. All other electronics appeared to function normally. My dad saw the battery cables were dirty and thought they needed replaced. He replaced them, and that either fixed it, or it magically started working a little bit after that, I can't remember. Anyways after he replaced the positive and negative battery wires, the blinkers stopped working

A while latter (like a month). Vehicle wouldn't start. Same as before, key turned, clicks, but no attempt from the starter. We tried to start it every so often (like a few times a day) and one time it started just fine.

Continued running for like a month, then wouldn't start again. This time the starter turned just fine, just no spark. You guys helped me blame the crank sensor, which was replaced and it started fine.

So the battery hasn't been replaced recently, blinkers stopped working after the battery cables were replaced. Currently everything seems to work fine except the blinkers.

Response From Discretesignals

There is a voltage on the fuse, however it isn't quite battery voltage.


Which fuse did you check?


You should jumper 1 to 4 at the combo flasher socket. Then turn the ignition on. You should be able to see if the lights power up when you position the turn signal in either direction. That would answer a whole lot of questions.

Response From RoboDisko

Ok, I will do that soon, but which ones are 1 and 4? That diagram you sent me is difficult to understand. What number would they be on a relay?

Response From Discretesignals Top Rated Answer

Look at the wire colors on the combo connector

1 =Black
4 =Pink

There are two black wires.

One is ground and the other should have battery voltage on it with the ignition switch in the on position.

The black wire that has power is the one you want to jump to the pink wire.

The combo flasher isn't a relay and you can't wire it up to the connector as such.

Response From RoboDisko

Ok, I figured out which black one was ground with a continuity test, and I checked the voltage on the other one. It didn't have any significant voltage when the ignition was in the run position. (the engine wasn't running, but it shouldn't matter, right?) I bridged the one that was supposed to have battery voltage to the pink one anyways, with an amp meter, and the blinkers didn't do anything. Also, the current going through the wire was .05 amps for the directional turn signals, and .085 for the hazard lamps. From this I assume that I should try connecting the one that is supposed to be at battery voltage to battery voltage?

Response From Discretesignals

If you don't have battery voltage at the black wire that comes from fuse 3 in the junction block, you need to work on that side of the circuit and figure out where it is being lost.


Black/ white should have 12 volts sitting on it all the time.
You could also jump black/white, if it has power, to pink just to see if the switch and load side of the circuit is working.

Don't forget when you jump these circuits you have to activate the turn signal switch. If the switch is in the left position, left front and left rear turn signals should be on steady. The same for the right turn side of the switch.


If you jump pink directly to battery, make sure you have a fuse in line. You don't want to find a short by smoking out a bunch of wiring...

Response From RoboDisko

Smoking wire...Brings back memories of when I was putting a radio in my 100% electric go-cart with 3 car batteries in series(36V). Hooked up an aligator click to the 12V input on the radio, and ground to one of the batteries's ground. Then put that aligator clip on the positive end of the same battery. These are small alligator clip wires that get warm with 5A. It practically vaporized. I thought the stereo was toast, but apparently the other end of the clip came in contact with the frame, which although supposed to be neutral, apparently wasn't.

Back to our topic:

According to further diagnosis, apparently I suck at diagnosis.

I did a continuity test from fuse 3 to the black wire. It was good. So I double checked the voltage on the fuse. It was at battery. I double checked the voltage on the black wire. Nothing. So I was like what the crap?! I checked all of that stuff a 2nd time, same results. Then I looked at the fuse I was holding and pretty much slapped myself. Apparently it blew sometime when I wasn't paying attention. Did the test again with a good fuse, and the blinkers stayed solid as expected.

I then proceeded to test the voltage on the black and white wire. It doesn't have any significant voltage. Should I try connecting it to 12v with my *fused* multimeter with the combo thingy in place?

Response From RoboDisko

I keep saying I'm going to do 1 thing, then I do another. Anyways I did a continuity test from one side of the hazard light fuse in the power distribution center to the black and white wire. It was good. But there was no significant voltage on the other side. I think this is the problem. What is the easiest way to rectify this wrong?

Response From Discretesignals

Do you have battery voltage sitting at fuse 1 20A?

Response From RoboDisko

No, no I don't. In fact, it is grounded. Is there an obvious wire that, if wrong, could cause this?

Response From Discretesignals

If you have the combo flasher connected, you'll have continuity to ground on the circuit after the fuse that goes to the combo relay.

If you don't have power to that fuse, you should check the fusible link up at the battery positive terminal. Diagram states the link should be white.


If you have continuity to ground on the circuit before the fuse which you shouldn't, the link is probably blown and you have a short to ground between the fusible link and the fuse box.

Response From RoboDisko

The circuit before the fuse is ground.

How easy is the power distribution center to open? if its easy, I'll repair it properly. If its going to be a pain, I just get a wire from positive to the fuse, and then to the combo flasher, tied together with lots of electrical tape and maybe a bit of hot glue. I'm famous for that kind of jimmy-riggin.

Response From Discretesignals

The circuit before the fuse has to be power directly from the battery positive terminal. There is a fusible link in that circuit.

Did you check the link? Check the link before ripping the whole power distribution box apart.

Why would you jerry rig that? If you are going to do something, why not take your time and do it correctly? You wouldn't think that a small wire could burn a whole car to the ground, but it will and has.

The link has to be in that circuit or else the car would be a fire hazard if the circuit were to short to ground. Find the problem, then decided how to fix it without the jerry rigging of course.

Response From RoboDisko

Ok I think I know the exact problem, and exactly how to fix it. It is ever so simple. If I'm correct, when my dad replaced the battery cables, he hooked a particular wire up on the wrong terminal. That wire the the feed for the combo flasher. Way too easy...I think. I'll go see if I'm right.

Response From RoboDisko

Yep, problem solved. You guys are amazing. Even when its something super simple. I think I'll disallow my dad to work on his own car, so this doesn't happen again. Thank You.

Another simple question that is to small for it's own thread: I have noticed that the egr valve and the atx shutdown relay both get very warm, even hot, if the ignition is lefvt on for a while, when the engine isn't running. Is this normal, or should I be concerned? As far as how hot, I don't have a thermostat but the egr valve is quite warm, but not too hot to touch. The contacts on the relay, however, are hot enough that they could probably burn you if you were stupid enough to keep touching them.

Response From Discretesignals

Relays do get warm when they are energized.

You sure your not looking at something else? The EGR valve is vacuum operated and shouldn't be hot with the key on, unless the engine has been running.

Response From RoboDisko

Pretty sure. It a black cylindrical thing with a tube coming out one end.

Response From Discretesignals

That would mean the solenoid is active. Is the solenoid being energized while the ignition is on and engine is off?

Response From RoboDisko

Yes, it happens when the ignition is on, but the engine isn't.

Response From Discretesignals

The solenoid is going to have power with the ignition on, but not sure if the PCM should be grounding it with the engine off ignition on. If the solenoid was staying open all the time with the engine running, the engine probably wouldn't idle very well or at all.


edit:

never mind that is normal.

The electronic EGR transducer contains an electrically operated solenoid and a back-pressure transducer (Fig. 2). The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) operates the solenoid. The PCM determines when to energize the solenoid. Exhaust system back-pressure controls the transducer.

When the PCM energizes the solenoid, vacuum does not reach the transducer. Vacuum flows to the transducer when the PCM de-energizes the solenoid.

Response From RoboDisko

OK so everything is normal?

Response From Discretesignals

It being warm, probably normal. The PCM leaves it turned on until it wants EGR flow, so the solenoid is going to get warm. As for everything else in your driveway, I have no clue..LOL

Response From RoboDisko

Ok. That's interesting that energized is closed. I think that is all of the combustion engine based problems that I can think of. If I have any more, I know where to go. You guys are awesome, thank you!

Response From Discretesignals

Your welcome. Glad to see you got things figured out. Thanks for the follow up.

Closed as OP seems satisfied.

Response From Discretesignals

Silver thing is the EGR valve. The cylindrical black device is the EGR transducer.

Response From RoboDisko

Ok well the black part. Is that normal?

HELP! 1996 Eagle Vision Won't stay running

Showing 5 out of 5 Posts
Question From Jwatts on HELP! 1996 Eagle Vision Won't stay running

I have a 1996 Eagle Vision with the 3.3 liter engine, 170,000 miles. My husband is a mechanic with the state of Mississippi. He does not shade tree. The car started just dying while I was driving but it would start right back. He installed a fuel pump. However, this did not fix the problem. (Meanwhile the car started not starting back soon.) So he installed both a cam and crank sensor. The problem got worse. He then installed a coil pack. This did not fix the problem. He has given up and taken the car to a local shop that has diagnostic equipment. The diagnostic equipment shot codes saying crank and cam malfunction. The original crank and cam sensors were replaced one at a time. They found a burnt plug-in on the ignition switch. This was replaced but did not solve the problem. The car will crank and run beautifully for a while until it dies. It won't start back until it is ready. What could be the problem?

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

The trouble codes for the cam/crank sensors could be old ones, before they were replaced. The cam sensor won't keep an engine from running, just goes back to normal injection rather than sequential. The crank sensor will cause it to die. From your symptoms, I'd take a hard look at the ignition control module.

Response From Jwatts Top Rated Answer

We are dealing with a distrbutorless ignition. I am going to show my mechanical ignorance now. Mind you my husband isn't home and I have not talked to him or any other mechanic so, this may be a stupid question. What is the ignition control module and where would it be located? The "coil pack" has been replaced. Aren't ignition modules normally associated with the coil and distributor? Thanks so much for the reply. I will ask these questions of my husband (he already knows I am mechanically limited) and mention the ignition control module.

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

The ignition control module is what the coil packs are mounted to. Depending on the application, some are a pain to get to. Others, are quite easy, right up on top. A faulty coil pack or even a high resistance plug wire can damage a coil pack, then, in turn, damage the control module. All due to high secondary resistance!

Response From Jwatts

Thanks again. All information is appreciated and helpful. As requested, I will keep ya'll informed.