Shop Cadillac Exhaust Manifolds

I like it hon. Hot Rod had a similar hearse to your that got customized like crazy a few months back.

We can help you as issues come up to work with it. One thing you might look at is taking a class at a local tech school this summer. Lot of them have an intro course about car maintenance and basic repairs geared towards people at your experience level.

I'm jealous of you CA people. In WI those cars rusted into nothing long ago.

1966 - no rust!

Lydia - There's plenty you can do with short bucks but you want to know if this is basically sound so you don't over-invest in it to find a nasty expense later.

I really don't know what might be all different than a regular Cadillac for parts? TKK, only one engine for any regular cars by Cadillac then anyway. Old as it is stuff still available quite easily for many Cadillacs and you are in the right state for good used stuff if needed.............

T

Hi and thanks for the replies. As far as the rust...I have had her for almost 2 years now and I have spent way too much money for any sane person to consider, but for me it's a little bit more than just a car. But her chassis is sound and shes in ok shape as far as that goes. But she needs SO much work, thats why I am trying to cut down cost by doing as much as I can myself. The problem is, I am not like my friend Nik, who can basically do anything ever without having ever done it before haha! I'm trying though. I am extremely attached to her and regardless of how much money it is going to cost me to restore, I really don't care. I love my hearse and I could never just give up, even if the engine gave out. Why? I have no idea, it just is I guess! In the coming days I will post some photos and questions that will probably sound really stupid heh..but you've got to start somewhere right?

As far as I know everything mechanical is stock caddy, but everything pretty much from the dash back is hearse, specifically S&S which is why I can't screw up the trim when I take it off because it would be really hard to source more. Also all the windows are hearse specific because they are curved glass/commercial glass, and have to be salvaged from another 66 or similar year. Fortunately I have a source for the glass, which can be some of the most expensive parts to replace. I believe the engine is a 429. She was built somewhere in the midwest, where all hearses were built at one time...Ohio or something. But she was in service for a German funeral home in san francisco, and the original custom buily plate still exists on the wheel well under the hood. I dont think the funeral home exists anymore.

As it stands, her whole front end needs rebuilding except the centerlink which I replaced a year ago, something is up with the tranny, she has chattering valves (I think), some pinging going on, new tires, she overheats slowly at idle, she needs a rebuilt carb, needs the suspension looked at possibly...and lord knows what else is up inside her engine. As I said though, I dont care about the cost. And I'm not even talking how she looks, as she needs complete restoration outside and in. Its a labour of love :)

I have another hearse thats a cadillac s&s as well, but is an 84. It has intermittent wiring issues. It died in the middle of me driving it a few weeks ago and has been parked ever since. His name is Orwell (yes, I name my cars), and he will start up if we jump him, so theres a newly developed power drain coming from somewhere, but I dont have and dont even know which tools I need to test that stuff. I'm starting from the ground up.

If you look on statigram and type in #hearse, you'll see tons of photos of Orwell. His license plate is LIFENDS. Dusty's is DST2DST. We're freaks :)

Here's a photo of Dusty gettin it on with Orwell (because Orwell's battery was dead)



ETA: I forgot, the over investment and nasty surprise later? I've already gone through that several times. Haha..lady told me there was no bondo on the car, too. Turns out, the whole damn car is bondo! Well, not really..but there is a lot of bondo. And they conveniently forgot to mention the flinstones style hole in the passenger side floor.. I mean it is HUGE. I cover it with cardboard hahaha...

If you are driving this regularly you do need the front end parts and suspension parts all good as well as brakes brakes of course.

The bondo and rusted floor could get expensive to fix.

The pinging you think is transmission could easily be engine knock/ping as it should have been a premium fuel engine and you can't find that octane anymore I know of. Plain tune up especially points and timing set. Could also have too high of compression from carbon build up. Note that as the points wear the bumper to cam in distributor the timing advances till it doesn't run properly and can ping.

If you find compression too high there might be an additive that will help. Can also just make carb eat tons of carb cleaner.

Overheat! Take care of that. I think this has a fan clutch which don't last forever to pull enough air and it needs to. Could be several things causing it to run hot - radiator bad or needing a good flush.

Hey - of course it's old enough to need plenty of things. Gotta make it safe at least first. You should be able to look inside radiator for the overheating to see basic junk that might be in it. If need be there used to radiator shops that could acid boil them or replace just the fins of the core it end the tanks are any good.

Find what makes it ping as if engine as strong as things were could be damaged by that alone.

One more for now. You can tell roughly how much "Bondo" was used with a magnet. If that was to fix rust it wouldn't last well and someday if you painted it the Bondo will not hold paint as well.

If worried, let a body shop take a look. I know you love it but might be a better parts car for another??

T

Ooooh the bondo... Well, I personally haw sanded the entire vehicle and I have completely redone the bondo in a lot of places. Some wingnut didn't mix the bondo properly and the stud was somehow still wet underneath after all that time! There are many cracks going on too straight down from the metal. So I've had to take it down to the metal in some spots...

The good news is I honed my bodywork skills doing his. I'm still not perfect and I don't know how to pull dents or use bodywork hammers yet, but she doesn't really need any of that anyway. Her front left panel and light housing was bashed in by the previous owner and is crooked so that the bezel doesn't fit anymore and is held on by bondo. I will have to have that fixed professionally.

I had the timing and points and things adjusted but that was per a year ago now. I had brand new brakes put in, new shoes, etc.. But whoever did it screwed it up. I had the radiator fixed as it had 5 leaks in it but I need a flush because its real rusty in there now. I Donno. Dustys a mess but I'd never use her for parts

I asked some questions about noises she was malign in a separate thread, but I guess I'm not supposed to have more than one thread about the same car, so I've got a few issues I need to take care of regarding those. I have more research to do, and I know the clunk in the front which I didn't mention is due to a rotted rubber thing pushing itself all the way out, I'm not sure what to called but I will take a photo I suppose and post it..

With the age of this, I don't think Alldata will have any specs available. I'd be checking on EBay to see if you can find a factory manual for this one. That would be a gold mine for info for you.

I've had holes in the floor like you do on 13 year old trucks. WI salt eats cars apart.

What manual would I look for? 66 Cadillac I'm assuming but I don't know anything about manuals, they don't include how to take panels and pieces like the bumper off do they? Because a lot of the car is hearse specific and I'm pretty sure S&S didn't make manuals lol..

I managed to figure out how to take the bumper off should I need to replace the tail lights, though. My right red lens is smashed so I will need a new one soon, it caused a wiring meltdown last year being exposed :(

Eta: I'm confused as to whether its a Cadillac fleetwood or series 75 and I want to figure out the difference between the two regardless. All I know is it is a commercial chassis and the hearse club throws around the word fleetwood a lot but also deville....?

Cadillac had different series vehicles.

The Fleetwood series included the Eldorado, 60 Special, Fleetwood Brougham, 75 sedan and Limos
The Deville series included Coup de Ville, Sedan de Villes, both hardtops and convertibles
The Calais Series included Calais Coup, Hardtop Sedan and Sedan

A hearse is most like a limo, in length anyhow. I know it's a commercial chassis, so I'm assuming I would go with the fleet wood series. I'll have a look around and see what I can drum up. A wiring diagram would be super useful too for when I replace the instrument panel. I scavenged one from a regular 66 that was sitting in a junkyard last year.

In 1981, Superior Coaches acquired the Sayers & Scovill funeral coach business, better known as The S&S Coach Company. At that time, all S&S Coach designs, dies, fixtures and manufacturing techniques were merged into the Lima operation and the Company name became S&S/Superior of Ohio.



I deleted these pictures to make this thread readable again.

What a great post! Thank you for that info and picture.

I really wish I had some money so I could do more/take her to be looked at. I feel like I have a sick pet!

Click Here

There is currently a thread in the car troubleshooting section called "tranny noise". This issue is the exact one dusty has. I'm afraid it's time to rebuild her transmission, because the people who owned it before me never serviced it. It's made the noise ever since I got the car, but has become much worse. I figured the lunging forward and backward when shifting into drive/reverse was tranny related but it might be bad u-joints if I'm understanding what I'm reading online correctly. Regardless, do you guys think its time? I dont really have $700 but will find it if I have to..

$700 for a trans job? No - lots more. The driveshaft on this may be all different. These and others used a CV joint made of u-joints.

Lunging isn't really the symptom when those went bad, noise and vibrations more likely,

T

Dusty is making a new noise and pop banging on startup after sitting for a while. I turn it off, try again and it doesn't do it.

Actually my friend has a 64 combo ambulance and a place near me did his for $550. They don't like hearses he said so they get them in an out as fast as possible. He said he has has no issues.

She started idling really high util I press the gas a little. If not u joints, why is she lunging forward and backward?

Any vehicle old or new an automatic will be confused about how to behave if engine isn't running properly. Lunging depending what you mean probably isn't caused by trans or u-joints/driveshaft.

You pricing is all wet - sorry. If somehow this is trans itself and an overhaul is in order you really don't know what it will need till it's apart. You can look up what a kit cost for a normal just worn common parts but that's only valid if hard parts are usable. Newer vehicles some trans shops will just dump yours and rebuid a good "core" which will be VERY hard to find and probably nobody or junkyard is going to know it that one is any good.

Why not spend a couple bucks and have a professionals check out making a list with estimates of what this will need mechanically in general? Then a quick guess by a body shop (you'll need that and harder + more expensive because it's already bondoed up.

Now if this popping and banging when sitting for a while could be nasty expensive up to redoing the engine and it may be too far gone. Just a carb redo if possible can cost several hundred and still not be done.

Perhaps join a Cadillac club that may have major parts available. Already said I think - HemmingsMotorNews.com is the old to much older car place for both parts, whole cars, and people that will work on them. I think they still sell the paper magazine which at least was like a phone book of adds and no doubt now with websites. My guess is many parts will be from So. Cal. or at least Southwest US.

This stuff is tough when you have all the tools and place to do it AND THE KNOW HOW,

T

Man, that sounds tough! I understand what you're saying though.

We have a friend in the funeral business who sells drivetrains, trannie and engines complete package salvaged from old limos nobody wants anymore. I'll hit him up and see what he says. Rumor has it he comes down on his prices if you take him out to dinner LOL

as far as putting it in, I have a friend who can do it, with cherry picker and all. Right now he's done both a 70s hearse ad is working on his 58 as well as a 59. Ill be damned if I can ever get him when he isn't busy though!

When I get a few bucks I'll take her in to have her properly looked at. Hopefully that won't be too long from now. I'll keep this updated with stuff as I find it. She didn't do the popping today. Maybe she just needs to be driven more? I checked the oil as transmission fluid. All is good.. Her noises seem to quiet down the more I drive her but come back when it's cold.

All in all when it's warmed up it runs alright for an old engine. But as a person who knows next to nothing about that stuff, I can't really say either way.

Maybe you could start by seeing what kind of mechanical condition the engine is in. If the engine is worn out and can't make good manifold vacuum you'd be wasting time messing with everything else.

Pick up a compression gauge and run a compression check on all the cylinders. There is loads of information on the internet and youtube on how to perform that test.

Compression gauge. Gotcha. I will have a look..

Right, so just to update, I have some new job prospects so I may have extra money in the coming couple of weeks to do some work on her! Finally.

In other news, the exhaust leak from under the hoo somewhere has become so terrible that I can't dive her for linger periods than 29 minutes because it starts to make me physically ill. I'm assuming that's bad.

The first thing I have to do is take care of her parking tickets. As soon as I'm able to do that, I wi sart going through her systems and figuring out what needs to be done. I've enlisted the help of an independent mechanic in my area who is interested in helping me for a very modest fee. Mostly diagnostic help. So I wi keep you guys updated..

We decided to try and sell the other hearse. We have a possible buyer but if we doesn't want it and no one else does we may keep him, but probably not. I will be sad to see him go.

Lydia - all fun and joking aside you can't drive that anymore until fixed or you'll get a ride in the back of one. Carbon monoxide can cause headaches, red skin, but leaves no odor on its own and is deadly! STOP DRIVING IT AT ALL TILL THAT IS FIXED NO MATTER WHAT ELSE IS WRONG WITH THE THING! You may not care but how about if you pass out while driving and hurt or kill someone? C'mon girl!

T

I agree totally. I never drive in er alone, but last night was really scary. I started getting dizzy and feeling really yuck.. Headache and such. I'm only going to drive her to move her to the other side of the street when the street sweeper comes (or else I'll get another ticket!) and that will be it.

I'm happy I will be able to give her attention now though. We have a buyer who may be interested in Orwell and she's coming to see it on the 12th. They run a hearse tour business in Arizona. I'm afrai she won't want him though, but I'll put him on Craigslist if I have to.

What could cause such a horrible leak? It smells terrible too so the whole no odor thing is moot.. She smells like poo-poo lol

TOO IMPORTANT LYDIA! THE DEADLY STUFF YOU CAN'T SMELL AS WE'VE SAID! EXHAUST ODOR YOU CAN. HEY! YOU HAVE A HOLE IN THE FLOOR TOO. THE HEADACHE IS THE FIRST CLUE I THINK. IF LIGHT SKINNED YOU MAY TURN RED AND NOT HAVE THE SENSE TO NOTICE ANYWAY!

DON'T THINK DRIVING IT MORE THAN TO MOVE IT WHERE YOU CAN FIND THE LEAK IS SAFE. EVEN OPEN WINDOWS MAY NOT WORK. NOT GOOD. ESPECIALLY A NON SMOGGED VEHICLE HAS LOTS OF CARBON MONOXIDE AND WOULDN'T TAKE LONG. PLEASE - DON'T FOOL AROUND WITH THIS,

Tom

Thanks for all your concern everyone.

Don't worry, I'm not going to drive her anymore except to move it. The leak is much, much worse than I remember it. So, after I get home from Maine next week I am going to wait a week or so till I have some $$ and take her in for a total rundown.

Am I supposed to feel puffs of air when the engine is running when I remove the orange oil cap? I read somewhere that that designates blowback, which is an indication of engine health, but I could be looking in the wrong place. If it is true though, I may as well replace the engine because its basically a steady stream of blowing air, and not just "puffs". I'm probably doing it wrong though.

As I said, I'm excited to finally be able to sort out her problems. I just hope I don't run into anything crazy serious along the way. I will scrimp and save If I have to rebuild the engine, tranny.. Whatever. Nothing but the best for Dusty :)

Exhaust issues first! You can get in trouble without hearing leaks never mind this.

"Am I supposed to feel puffs of air when the engine is running when I remove the orange oil cap?" I think '66 models used vented oil caps with a steel wool inside to help return any oil rather than make a mess. There is some "normal" blow-by in an engine but when excessive indicates a tired, worn engine, usually too much gets by rings but it wouldn't be just rings to solve. Make sure PCV valve and hose are working and have suction - it does have a PCV valve in 1966. Think that started in 1964 on all vehicles.

You can fake it for a good while with a worn engine of the vintage but want to hear the exhaust is done first and we can take on that.

You'll love Maine if you've never been. Great weather here lately and best month IMO. Pre Memorial Day is great. Brace for cold nights!

T

Oh ok .. Don't know why pcv valve and hose are but will look those up.

I was born and raised in Maine actually :) I'm visiting my parents.

One of the mechanics the hearse club uses is way expensive but he does the best work around. I'm going to have him take a look at it when I get back. Is there perhaps a checklist of things you think I should ask him definitely? I suppose I should just make a list, I'll just forget if I don't :P

PCV = "Positive Crankcase Ventilation" which is a little metal (might be a plastic now) valve to suck the fumes out of the air in all the places above sitting oil in the oil pan that includes the valve covers. Some went right into oil cap, more were into a rubber grommet on valve cover. It will be a larger rubber hose that ends up at base of carb not the one that goes to the brake booster. If you pulled that out you should feel suction. If not clean out with carb cleaner, replace hose clean or replace valve till it rattles in your hand. Pretty basic thing. Those were the first and only emission control for a while.

Maine! Where from? I've been all over it and two siblings there now - to retire there too. I can be at the Piscataqua bridge in about 1.2 hours from here which is the ME/NH border for readers when heading North on I-95 from MA where I am. Great state,

T

Tom, this is a 66 and as I recall they used the oil fill area with a little screen on it for PCV.

If you're getting a lot of air coming out of that when running, then you have a lot of blowby. What it is it combustion gasses getting past your piston rings into the crankcase. Even a healthy engine will have a small amount, but a lot of blowby indicates a worn out engine.

Remember these cars new. Crankcase venting was just a stink tube to the ground before PCV idea. I think all sold had to use one and not that pipe. It was oil filler caps that many just pushed on and would spit some thru the steel wool to catch it. Soon after that they closed that up too for sealed PCV.

Some other mandated changes by model year for all was seat belts, 1964. Owned cars with none and cars without padded dash boards even. All metal.

Right at oil Embargo of 1973 emissions got more serious exactly when gas prices doubled and the first non war gas lines were common. 1972? - or close Iraq instantly stopped selling crude to the US all at once. Pres. Nixon put national speed limit to 50 MPH not long later to be national 55 as truckers really complained.

I used to know when some total change year was for what and only know some. 5MPH bumper law for all cars (not trucks) in 1973. Meant the car had to sustain hitting a cement wall at 5 MPH with no damage. That only lasted till about 1979 models or so. Not sure but was 2.5 MPH to lighten the cars.

Not sure if a Hearse or Limo had to comply with everything either so some unknowns?? Trucks were exempt from lots of things till much later as there was a day a truck was specifically to work with not multitask as plain transportation too.

For now if a removed oil cap on a 66 blows out noticeably it isn't a good sign,

Tom

It would really,really,be a good idea to take a automotive shop course at a local community college. Often they will use a students car for hands on trining . With the knowledge you will gain you will be able to do more and more. And what you do have to outsource you will be able to talk the talk and spot rip offs. You have the desire and drive ,a little knowledge will go a long way. As far as $$$$ to do thiis .Talk to a admisssions /financial aid (loans & grants)person.

Manual: Is the company that made it still in biz? Find them if so. Some silly things may be unique to this vs a regular 66 Caddy. A lot of custom cars like it, limos, even ambulances would be different in some areas. Engine and trans probably the same. Ebay out an old "pro" edition of a Chiltons - all American cars were in one big book. They were expensive books back when not the junk paperback stuff you might find.

Back then those books covered 9 model years. Must be the "pro" editions as some stuff really is useless otherwise,

T

I think I remember looking for a chiltons but not finding one. Let me ask my club people which manual I should get.. I know that year has shop manuals, is that maybe something to try? The cd version was $30. S&S was bought out by Supeior I think, another coach company but they still use S&S as a name, but I could be wrong. As far as coach builder specific manuals, every hearse owner would have them if they existed. I could attempt to contact S&S.

If I had loads of money I could send her back to S&S to be redone by the actual coach builder, but alas.. I haven't yet a money tree :)

Oh and Tom, carbon buildup.. How do I clean that out? I know it needs a flush but what kind of stuff do I need to get the carbon out or is it even possible?

I'd bet a used paper manual would cost more to ship than the price. I have a 1961-1969 one that is awesome. Specs, drawings, pics, wiring diagrams. I'm talking about a dark green book with almost a cloth covered hard cover. Sorry to say but another was better by the early 1970s than those were,

T

Do you know who the manual is by? Just the manufacturer? I'm wondering if I can get my hands on one maybe on eBay but these things seem so rare now

Look for one by Motor or Cadillac itself. Try Amazon too, they are great for used book sales. Another source which you should look into is Hemmings. They are they authority on classic cars like this one, and they cover things clear back to the brass era. Look them up, they have a on of vendors that can get you what you need.

Thanks, Discretesignals. A lot of good info. I will follow up on it. Jim

I want to thank both Hammer Time and Discretesignals for all their help and advice on the oxygen sensor problem. I have located it and it is completely dry and does not appear to be contaminated in anyway. I am currently looking for a vacuum leak. I have no leaks anywhere that I can find. One of you mentioned burning oil or coolant. I can smell coolant after I drive the car for a short time, but it goes away quickly. Does this give you any idea of what to look for if it is a coolant problem that is affecting the oxygen sensor?

You can't see contamination in an 0/2 sensor. The sensor is internal.

Quote now important noted ">> I can smell coolant after I drive the car for a short time, but it goes away quickly."
Are you losing coolant? Not from the recovery bottle I mean any air at the radiator? If that's really burning coolant that's first thing to chase down IMO or what's the point in continually trashing sensors?
Pressure checks, look for one or more spark plugs even now newer that are different up to a compression check and of course anything visual seen,


T

First understand one thing. There is NO code that means any component is bad. The component referred to in a code is not necessarily the cause of the code, especially when you are talking about 0/2 sensors.

The E-13 is 0/2 not ready and the E-44 is a lean code. Something as simple as a vacuum leak can do that.


Code E44 will set when:

1. There is an oxygen sensor circuit fault giving a false lean indication. OR
2. When the air fuel ratio is actually lean due to a vacuum leak or fuel control system fault.

1. An open in CKT 412 or 413.
2. A short to voltage on CKT 412 or 413.
3. An oxygen sensor that cannot respond.