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Spectra Premium
2006 GMC Savana 2500 Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 6 Cyl 4.3L Spectra Premium

P311-3289262    W0133-1686843  New

Qty:
$35.17
Spectra Premium Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
Brand: Spectra Premium
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2006 - GMC Savana 2500 V 6 Cyl 4.3L 262 -
Spectra Premium
2007 GMC Sierra 1500 Classic Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 6 Cyl 4.3L Spectra Premium

P311-3289262    W0133-1686843  New

Qty:
$35.17
Spectra Premium Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • Location-Distributor
Brand: Spectra Premium
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2007 - GMC Sierra 1500 Classic V 6 Cyl 4.3L 262 -
ACDelco
2007 GMC Envoy Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 6 Cyl 4.2L ACDelco

P311-3791E27    W0133-1783312  New

Qty:
$52.15
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2007 - GMC Envoy L 6 Cyl 4.2L 256 -
ACDelco
2014 GMC Terrain Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 4 Cyl 2.4L ACDelco

P311-2973969    W0133-1865871  New

Qty:
$66.73
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2014 - GMC Terrain L 4 Cyl 2.4L 145 2384
ACDelco
2017 GMC Terrain Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 4 Cyl 2.4L ACDelco

P311-2973969    W0133-1865871  New

Qty:
$66.73
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
  • Incl.Bolt and Seal
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2017 - GMC Terrain L 4 Cyl 2.4L 145 2384
ACDelco
2006 GMC Envoy XL Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 6 Cyl 4.2L ACDelco

P311-5BF88BD    W0133-1693707  New

Qty:
$57.19
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2006 - GMC Envoy XL L 6 Cyl 4.2L 256 -
ACDelco
2006 GMC Canyon Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 5 Cyl 3.5L ACDelco

P311-5BF88BD    W0133-1693707  New

Qty:
$57.19
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
  • Exhaust
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2006 - GMC Canyon L 5 Cyl 3.5L 211 3460
ACDelco
2006 GMC Canyon Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 5 Cyl 3.5L ACDelco

P311-531702F    W0133-1866029  New

Qty:
$52.22
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
  • Intake
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2006 - GMC Canyon L 5 Cyl 3.5L 211 3460
ACDelco
2007 GMC Canyon Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 5 Cyl 3.7L ACDelco

P311-531702F    W0133-1866029  New

Qty:
$52.22
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2007 - GMC Canyon L 5 Cyl 3.7L 223 3654
ACDelco
2009 GMC Savana 3500 Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 8 Cyl 6.0L ACDelco

P311-09AC157    W0133-1866144  New

Qty:
$63.14
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2009 - GMC Savana 3500 V 8 Cyl 6.0L 364 5967
ACDelco
2009 GMC Savana 4500 Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 8 Cyl 6.0L ACDelco

P311-09AC157    W0133-1866144  New

Qty:
$63.14
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
  • Incl.O-Ring
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2009 - GMC Savana 4500 V 8 Cyl 6.0L 364 5967
ACDelco
2017 GMC Sierra 3500 HD Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 8 Cyl 6.0L ACDelco

P311-09AC157    W0133-1866144  New

Qty:
$63.14
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
  • Incl.Seal
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2017 - GMC Sierra 3500 HD V 8 Cyl 6.0L 364 5967
ACDelco
2009 GMC Acadia Engine Camshaft Position Sensor ACDelco

P311-3104408    W0133-1866427  New

Qty:
$50.93
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
  • Includes O-Ring Seal
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle
2009 - GMC Acadia
WSO
2014 GMC Terrain Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 4 Cyl 2.4L WSO

P311-02D021B    W0133-1865871  New

Qty:
$45.69
WSO Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
Brand: WSO
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2014 - GMC Terrain L 4 Cyl 2.4L 145 2384
WSO
2017 GMC Terrain Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 4 Cyl 2.4L WSO

P311-02D021B    W0133-1865871  New

Qty:
$45.69
WSO Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • Incl.Bolt and Seal
Brand: WSO
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2017 - GMC Terrain L 4 Cyl 2.4L 145 2384
Standard Ignition
2005 GMC Canyon Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 4 Cyl 2.8L Standard Ignition

P311-05E5874    PC403  New

71-4536 , 600-6114 , 213-964 , 235-1207 , SU1486 , 2CAM0099 , 8125687150 , 8-12584-079-0 , 8125712660 , 12571266 , 12584079 , 180-0587 , 5S1395 , S10052 , 12568715 , CSS1579 , 19236393 , 4R8 , 213-1557 , 147-484 , 24576400 , 917-714

Qty:
$36.40
Standard Ignition Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • Camshaft Sensor
  • Product Attributes:
    • Connector Gender: Female
    • Terminal Type: Blade
  • Each sensor has integrated Analog Digital (A/D) converter and digital signal processing with dynamically adaptive switch points improving accuracy and operation. Custom engineered magnetic circuit programming calibrates the sensor while performance testing improves timing accuracy between target wheel and sensor output. Integrated A/D converter and digital signal processing with a dynamically adaptive switch point improves accuracy and operation. Advanced circuitry protects the system from stray electro-magnetic fields and power spikes. Custom magnetic circuit programming calibrates the sensor while performance testing for improved timing accuracy between the target wheel and sensor output. 100% environmental, endurance and end-of-line testing for Timing, Pulse Width and Signal Amplitude ensures consistent product reliability. Featuring the broadest sensor coverage in the market, we meet the service professionals needs with the highest quality product every time he opens the box. As a global manufacturer of emission components, complete quality control is maintained through the manufacturing process from componentry to finished product.
  • Suggested Purchase Quantity: 2
    • Most jobs typically require 2 of this item.
Brand: Standard Ignition
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2005 - GMC Canyon L 4 Cyl 2.8L 169 2770
Standard Ignition
2004 GMC Canyon Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 5 Cyl 3.5L Standard Ignition

P311-05E5874    PC403  New

71-4536 , 600-6114 , 213-964 , 235-1207 , SU1486 , 2CAM0099 , 8125687150 , 8-12584-079-0 , 8125712660 , 12571266 , 12584079 , 180-0587 , 5S1395 , S10052 , 12568715 , CSS1579 , 19236393 , 4R8 , 213-1557 , 147-484 , 24576400 , 917-714

Qty:
$36.40
Standard Ignition Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • Camshaft Sensor
  • Exhaust Side
  • Product Attributes:
    • Connector Gender: Female
    • Terminal Type: Blade
  • Each sensor has integrated Analog Digital (A/D) converter and digital signal processing with dynamically adaptive switch points improving accuracy and operation. Custom engineered magnetic circuit programming calibrates the sensor while performance testing improves timing accuracy between target wheel and sensor output. Integrated A/D converter and digital signal processing with a dynamically adaptive switch point improves accuracy and operation. Advanced circuitry protects the system from stray electro-magnetic fields and power spikes. Custom magnetic circuit programming calibrates the sensor while performance testing for improved timing accuracy between the target wheel and sensor output. 100% environmental, endurance and end-of-line testing for Timing, Pulse Width and Signal Amplitude ensures consistent product reliability. Featuring the broadest sensor coverage in the market, we meet the service professionals needs with the highest quality product every time he opens the box. As a global manufacturer of emission components, complete quality control is maintained through the manufacturing process from componentry to finished product.
  • Suggested Purchase Quantity: 2
    • Most jobs typically require 2 of this item.
Brand: Standard Ignition
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2004 - GMC Canyon L 5 Cyl 3.5L 211 3460
Standard Ignition
2005 GMC Canyon Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 5 Cyl 3.5L Standard Ignition

P311-05E5874    PC403  New

71-4536 , 600-6114 , 213-964 , 235-1207 , SU1486 , 2CAM0099 , 8125687150 , 8-12584-079-0 , 8125712660 , 12571266 , 12584079 , 180-0587 , 5S1395 , S10052 , 12568715 , CSS1579 , 19236393 , 4R8 , 213-1557 , 147-484 , 24576400 , 917-714

Qty:
$36.40
Standard Ignition Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • Camshaft Sensor
  • Exhaust
  • Product Attributes:
    • Connector Gender: Female
    • Terminal Type: Blade
  • Each sensor has integrated Analog Digital (A/D) converter and digital signal processing with dynamically adaptive switch points improving accuracy and operation. Custom engineered magnetic circuit programming calibrates the sensor while performance testing improves timing accuracy between target wheel and sensor output. Integrated A/D converter and digital signal processing with a dynamically adaptive switch point improves accuracy and operation. Advanced circuitry protects the system from stray electro-magnetic fields and power spikes. Custom magnetic circuit programming calibrates the sensor while performance testing for improved timing accuracy between the target wheel and sensor output. 100% environmental, endurance and end-of-line testing for Timing, Pulse Width and Signal Amplitude ensures consistent product reliability. Featuring the broadest sensor coverage in the market, we meet the service professionals needs with the highest quality product every time he opens the box. As a global manufacturer of emission components, complete quality control is maintained through the manufacturing process from componentry to finished product.
  • Suggested Purchase Quantity: 2
    • Most jobs typically require 2 of this item.
Brand: Standard Ignition
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2005 - GMC Canyon L 5 Cyl 3.5L 211 3460
ACDelco
2007 GMC Sierra 1500 Classic Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 8 Cyl 4.8L ACDelco

P311-066A312    W0133-1687024  New

Qty:
$99.56
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2007 - GMC Sierra 1500 Classic V 8 Cyl 4.8L 294 -
ACDelco
2017 GMC Terrain Engine Camshaft Position Sensor 6 Cyl 3.6L ACDelco

P311-10CD0DC    W0133-2549088  New

Qty:
$28.05
ACDelco Engine Camshaft Position Sensor
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • GM Original Equipment
Brand: ACDelco
Additional Fitment Information:
Vehicle Block Engine CID CC
2017 - GMC Terrain V 6 Cyl 3.6L 217 3564

Latest Gmc Repair and Camshaft Position Sensor Installation Advice

CarJunky AutoAdvice

Please Help Me!

Showing 7 out of 7 Posts
Question From dogmadan on Please Help Me!

I have a '97 GMC Sierra, 5.7L Vortec 4x4. A couple of months ago it just started running like crap. I couldn't even drive it, it was that bad. Some one told me the catlytic converters were plugged so I cut them out and put in pipes. No change. Then I thought maybe the fuel filter was plugged so I replaced that. Still the same. I did some reading and all things pointed to the crank position sensor. So I started messing around with it. Sure enough when I was able to get the truck running, I would get under the truck and gently push on the CKP sensor, it would start to run smooth. I have a lot of oil leakage near the ckp sensor, so I thought if I cleaned the wiring clip for the sensor it may help. So I sprayed it with brake clean and there was no change. So the next day I purchased a new CKP sensor and put it in the truck. Now it won't even fire. NOTHING! I put the old CKP sensor back in and still nothing. I even went so far as to change the wiring clip that plugs into the CKP sensor. I am lost. Did the brake clean short something out or completely burn out the wiring? Or is this something much bigger than a crank position sensor? I have also ran a code reader on the truck and the only error codes that come up have to do with CKP sensor and camshaft position sensor issues. Low voltage issues if I remember correctly. Any ideas out there?

Response From Hammer Time

I think it's probably time that you started paying someone else to do your repairs. It sounds like you have exceeded thousands in damages now trying to repair this yourself. Those converters alone will probably be $1,000.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Ditto:

Quote ">>Some one told me the catalytic converters were plugged so I cut them out and put in pipes."

Why oh why would you do that? You could have done some simple tests to know if they were plugged and yes that pipe with the converters and FOUR o2 sensors is monster bucks!

Maybe that "someone" will help you pay for the new pipe which I'm near sure exceeds $1,000 bucks - that and the sensors that there are four of that probably won't swap over!

T

Response From Hammer Time

He's approaching this diagnosis like a blindfolded gorilla with a baseball bat. Everything he has suspected is now no longer working and instead of finding the original problem, he keeps creating new ones.
I haven't read anything about stored codes, not that they would be much help any more since so many things have been disconnected and likely new, false codes set. I'll bet he has tried turning the distributor to change the timing too. Where the hell do you start?

Response From dogmadan Top Rated Answer

I'm sorry I asked for help. This is what is wrong with the world. No one wants to help, just insult. I have found that the people who insult really don't know a damn thing. They get through life just crapping on others to make up for their short comings. You should have your fancy mechanics badge taken away from you for sheer ignorance. And just for the record I did not move the distributor to change the timing. That would be stupid. AND the catalytic converters were rattling and spitting their guts out of my tailpipe, so they would have to be changed regardless, as I mentioned in my last post. And after all this I did manage to figure out what the problem was without the help of all you so called experts. A little research and a little perseverance and voila, problem solved. It runs like a top. Now I can focus on fixing all the "dumb" things I did along the way. Thanks for nothing.

Response From Hammer Time

No problem. Come back again when you trash another car trying to fix it.

And for the record, you couldn't change the timing on that engine if you tried.

Response From dogmadan

I always appreciate insults when I ask for help. For your information, as I stupidly failed to mention in the original post, the converters were coming apart inside anyway. So they were going to have to be replaced regardless. Now if anyone out there has something CONSTRUCTIVE to offer, I would greatly appreciate it.

1998 5.7 GMC Van P1351, PO171, PO174

Showing 3 out of 72 Posts | Show 69 Hidden Posts
Question From b_oneself on 1998 5.7 GMC Van P1351, PO171, PO174

OK,
I'm having a problem with my engine again. After a long complicated self-inflicted detour concerning a fuel pump pressure problem I finally got it straightened out thanks to the marvelous genius - and generous Hammer Time. I've been rolling along just fine (although I kept getting a periodic check engine light on - same old PO171 & PO174 trouble fault codes but these have not deterred me from having plenty of power) and then suddenly today the engine won't fire. I have to presume the problem is on the spark side since I can hear the fuel pump pre-loading and running when the key is in the start mode. Plus I sprayed starter fluid directly in air intake (air cleaner) and got nada, not one explosion. Borrowing my friend's code scanner I pull up trouble code P1351 (High voltage Coil # 1 and Coil#4) Could this mean I am getting no spark and thus no start?

Response From Hammer Time

Are you sure about that P1351. It doesn't make a whole bunch of sense.


The other 2 codes aren't right either. They have t have been PO171 and PO174

Response From b_oneself

I guess you must be right (I am not at the vehicle now or I would double check) Must have been PO171, PO174 -a lean code for Ox sensors either the upstream or downstream ones, Bank 1 and Bank 2 or something like that. I already replaced one set, before or after.. and as I mentioned this appears to be of secondary concern at the moment, since I have to start the van in order to go to work. P1351 That must be it. I wondered about the crankshaft position sensor. I feel like I am wandering around in the dark. This is no VW beetle (my only repertroir of mechanical know-how).

Response From Hammer Time

That wouldn't mean bad 0/2 sensors. That's a lean condition. Check for vacuum leaks or intake snorkel leaks.

Response From b_oneself

Thanks for being there once more, most honorable Hammer Time -and so quick to reply! I believe you that I need to replace the other two O/2 sensors. This little problem persisted even after you got me on the road again last time. But I have been driving it ever since. This new condition (won't start -seems like no spark) is what has got me parked. What can P1351 refer to (High voltage Coil #1 & #4). This is the only new code to appear so without making the mistake of throwing money at the entire list of faults, I hoped to narrow down my focus to this most urgent one. -Or are you saying that the O/2 problem might have caused the starting problem?

Response From Hammer Time

I believe you that I need to replace the other two O/2 sensors.

Where did I say that?

I said exactly the opposite that the sensors are fine. You have a lean condition that the sensors are reporting.

There is no PO351. You need to get the code right before you do anything. We could be chasing the totally wrong codes.

Response From b_oneself

Oops, I reread the post and you're correct. You said the O/2 sensors would not be the issue, and yes, as a matter of fact I know I have a little vacuum leak because the hose that attaches to that plastic vacuum "storage" canister came off at the intake area and I cannot see where it belongs. With that said, it sure seems like this is a separate issue from the starting problem - especially since it has been in this condition since we (you) last got this GMC 3500 Econoline van back running with plenty of power. I apologize for being so sketchy with the trouble codes. I will recheck them first chance I get. I think I must have read P1351 -I definitely remember the description: High voltage Coil #1 & #4.

Response From b_oneself

I have now rechecked the trouble codes and this is finally, for sure, the correct readings:
PO171 and PO174 (a lean reading from the O/2 sensors) and I did find a couple of vacuum leaks so I'm hoping this could resolve that particular problem. However, I am still unable to start the engine so I cannot determine that. But the scanner is clearly showing P1351 (no codes present with key on engine off but P1351 appears every time I engage the starter. I have repeated the test many times over and it always states: P1351 Ignition coil #1 and #4 control circuit high voltage Any clues anyone? I am sorry about the confusion regarding the errors in my trouble code reporting.

Response From Hammer Time

What's the fuel pressure?

That code still can't be right. you truck doesn't even have "coil 1 and 4 control circuits. It has one coil and one circuit.

Response From Discretesignals

P1351 is IC (ignition control) circuit high voltage.

That P1351 code maybe why the engine doesn't start. That code usually pops up when the PCM sees above 4.9 volts on the IC circuit going to the ignition module. The PCM uses the IC circuit to trigger the transistor in the ignition control module to fire the ignition coil.

This is what the diagnostic chart states:

Inspect the wiring and connector at the IC module. Make sure that the IC module is plugged in.

* Take a volt meter and set on it AC volts. Remove the connector from the ignition module and probe the white wire terminal in the connector. Connect your meter's black lead to battery negative. Have someone crank the engine. You should see 1-4 volts.

If you see 1-4 volts, set your meter on DC volts and check for battery voltage on the pink wire in the connector with the ignition on.

If you see battery voltage on the pink wire, set your meter for ohms and check the black wire for continuity to ground. It should be close to zero ohms.

If everything checks out good, replace the ignition control module.


* I question this step because the signal from the PCM is a digital on and off signal in DC volts. Could be in error, but that is what is written in the step.

Response From b_oneself

Gurus,
I did the recommended tests according to the diagnostic chart.
step#1
measured the white wire on end of connector (the order of connector wires: white, black, white, pink)
result was virtually no voltage except an instantaneous surge -(less than a split second) when I began cranking the starter -during the cranking no voltage on both AC and DC scales
measured the white wire in middle of connector (#3 next to pink one)
result was between 1-4 volts on both the AC and DC scales

step#2
measured the pink wire and (at end of connector)
result was almost 12 volts on DC scale
step#3
measured continuity between black wire and ground on ohm scale and got 0.00 on each om level except 200M

We replaced the ignition module (taking special care to apply the thermal paste) and coil (since it was a free exchange) and when that didn't start the engine we replaced the crankshaft position sensor . Still nothing. Now what? Please don't tell me it could be the PCM. The business about the AC scale did seem strange, plus I'm still not certain WHICH white wire is the correct one to test. I also checked for spark at the spark plug wire and definitely no spark.

Response From Discretesignals

After clearing the code, does it reappear each time after you crank the engine for thirty seconds? Unplug the injector connector, clear the code, crank the engine for 30 seconds, and see if the code comes back.

Inspect your connector really good. Look for broken wiring inside the insulation near the connector by slighly tugging on the wires to see if the insulation stretches and inspect the terminals in the connector. Make sure the terminals have good tension.

Have you checked for spark using a spark tester?

The ignition control module connector should have letters on it. A-D

A(pink): 12 volt source from ignition. Hot when ignition is run or start.

B(white): IC trigger. Should have between 1-4 V while cranking the engine.

C(black/white): is the ground for the module.

D(white/black): Ignition coil trigger. Should see 12 volts with ignition turned on.

Response From b_oneself

D.S.,
I did clear the code several times (within the scanner tool) and the P1351 did reappear each time. I never unplugged the injector connector -(location?)

I did inspect the connector to the ignition module very carefully, the wires seem tight with no breaks, but I'll double check again.

My method for checking the spark was the old fashioned way -stick a screwdriver in the spark plug wire and hold the metal of the screwdriver 1/4 inch away from ground and watch for a spark to jump to the ground.

I didn't see the A-D letters on the connector (I will look thoroughly tomorrow). But I clearly could see the order and color of wires. On this connector: Pink, then white, then black, and white on the other end. Also this second description of wire color/order is different from your first diagnostic chart. One more little clue I just thought of: This whole no spark/ no start condition just began 2 days ago after it rained all night -the first time it has really rained hard in months.

Response From Discretesignals

Sorry, I didn't quite have them in order in the previous post.

This should clarify things:


Response From b_oneself

As best as I can figure:

My pink wire is hot (12 volts) with key on and during cranking
My middle white wire is getting the 1-4 volts during cranking
My black wire is a good ground (no resistance)
My end white wire has virtually no volts (.02) with key on or during cranking -that would be D the terminal for the tachometer signal according to the diagram. You mentioned it should be putting out 12 volts to the coil (correct?) but for this test I would have check the wire while it was plugged into the ICM (correct?) Otherwise, if I am supposed to check the end white wire (D) on the connector that goes to the ICM without it being plugged into the ICM, then I've got nothing with key on or during cranking. Btw, is the vehicle control module (VCM) the same as the powertrain control module (PCM) ie., the computer?

Response From Discretesignals

With the ICM connector unplugged and the ignition switch in the run position you should see 12 volts on the white/black wire (D). The module doesn't supply battery voltage to coil. The module grounds that circuit to charge the coil or saturate it. When the module gets the signal from the VCM to fire the coil, it unlatches the ground.

The power for the ignition coil comes from the ignition switch. If you have no power on the terminal (D) and your coil is good, you have a wiring problem because you know you have power on the pink wire from the terminal.

Pull the ignition coil connector and check for 12 volts with the ignition in the run position on the pink wire (A). Then ohm check the white/black wire between the ignition coil and ignition module(C to D). Inspect your wiring and connectors very carefully.

The PCM and VCM both control the operation of the transmission and engine. The only difference is that a VCM also controls an ABS system. What is funny is that GM must of been confused and stuck with the VCM name for the controller even though it doesn't control the ABS system on your van. The ABS system is controlled by the EBCM.

Response From b_oneself

Discretesignals,
Thanks for the precise instructions and helpful corrections. I will have to pick this up again tomorrow when I can return to the van. I do recall the D wire did not have 12 volts (none) with the key in run position. So it looks like I must examine the wiring as you say. Because of your attention I now have some good directions to hunt down the culprit! I shall report back on my investigation. If only I could get some new eyes.

Response From b_oneself

OK,
Here's the latest update on my no start/no spark condition. After double-checking with the volt/ohm meter I got exactly the specified readings on the ICM connector and the coil connector. ie., 12 volts on the pinks, between 1 and 4 volts on the middle white (B) during cranking, no resistance on the black (C) and 12 volts at (D) with the key on, and no resistance between (C) and (D). It still won't start -no spark, and the same P1351 code is present after cranking the starter 30 seconds. Remember I just finished changing the ICM and coil (twice) and the crankshaft position sensor. Where do I go from here?

Response From Discretesignals

We are now off the trouble chart. You have an odd one here.

Just for the heck of it inspect the ground eyelet for the module. It is bolted on the inside of the fender near the master cylinder. There is another ground you should check that attaches to the right inner fender next to the battery. This ground goes directly to the negative battery cable. Make sure they are clean and tight.

Do you have a 12 volt test lamp? If you do, unplug the coil connector. Then connect your test lamp to the positive side of the battery and probe the white/black wire (pin C) in the coil's connector. Have someone crank the engine. Does the lamp flash rapidly?

Response From b_oneself

Thank-you for following my peculiar problem with the no spark/no start syndrome. I shall do the recommended procedures when I return to the vehicle. It was pouring rain when you posted last so I will carry on tomorrow. I can use all the help I can get. You're an unique resource and perhaps have no idea the value of the education you provide, along with that other master I encountered, Mr. Hammer Time.
With respect for your work and a grateful user of CarJunky. com advise,
Bob

Response From speed

been watching this thread from afar and i have a question about it. is it possible that the timing is misadjusted causing the high voltage in circuit code beacuse its at the wrong time? if thats ruled out is it possible that there is something wrong with the reluctor ring for CKP sensor?

Response From Discretesignals

It's unlikely that the if the distributor was out of synchronization a P1351 would show up. If the distributor was way off, the engine wouldn't start and if it it is was running and off enough it would set a P1345 code for a correlation fault between the cam sensor and the crank sensor. Turning the distributor doesn't affect base timing, it affects cam sensor angle which affects fuel injection synchronization. Remember this system uses the crank sensor on the timing cover to determine the order of the cylinders and base timing.

The way it works is that the PCM is sending a 5 volt digital square wave signal to the ICM to trigger the transistor that turns the ignition coil's primary circuit on and off. The actual signal is between 1 to 4 volts because of resistance in the circuit. It is built that way, so the PCM can recognize an open, shorted to power, or shorted to ground circuit.

The illustration below is an ignition trigger signal in blue that should be traveling on that IC circuit wire. Even though this waveform is for Toyota, the signal is probably similar to the GM's.


If the PCM sees 5 volts all the time on that circuit while your cranking the engine, the PCM assumes the circuit has an open. That is when the P1351 code appears. The open could be in the PCM, wiring, or the ICM. I'm assuming that since that code is appearing, the PCM isn't able to trigger the ICM and that is why he doesn't have any secondary action going on.

I'm attempting to get the OP to check all the wiring and make sure that the grounds are good for those components. It's possible a high resistance ground for the ICM could cause that code. Just using the process of elimination.

The next thing I am going to ask the OP to do is to disconnect the ICM connector and short the white wire IC trigger circuit to ground and then crank the engine. This should cause the PCM to set a P1361 code, which is IC trigger circuit low voltage. If that code sets, that means the wiring from the IC to the PCM is good and the PCM can recognize a low voltage and high voltage condition in that circuit.

If the PCM can recognize an IC low circuit voltage condition, then the only thing I have left to advise is one of two things:

(1) The signal is going to have to be scoped to see what the signal actually looks like.
(2) Use a signal generator to pump a waveform down the IC circuit to simulate the signal from the PCM and see if the coil fires. This would eliminate everything after the PCM.

If the signal looks funky on a scope or a signal generator can fire the coil, more than likely the PCM is the culprit.

Response From b_oneself

Alas, my adventure with this no spark issue is not over. I did indeed have a very sloppy connector at the coil which I by-passed with alternative wiring (strong 12 volts every time now at terminal (D) on the ICM). I repeated every test on the ICM connector (A,B,C,D) and everything checked out: A (pink wire has 12 volts), B (between 2.9 - 3.4 volts when cranking ) C (good ground .3 ohms on 200 scale), D 12 volts with key in run position. I double checked the two grounds DS suggested. A friend said I should check the ECM fuse. There were two (ECM1-20 AMPS and ECMB-20 AMPS) and both were OK (a little bit coroded so I cleaned them up).
I still get the P1351 code after cranking starter for 30 seconds. I read the previous post that advised OP (orignal poster?) to ground the B wire (the wire that is never supposed to put out 5 volts to the IC trigger in the VCM) ie., "High Voltage" to see if it triggers a P1361 code "Low Voltage" and sure enough, it did exactly that. To be precise the code described "control circuit coil #1 and # 4 Low Voltage".
(P1351 ="control circuit coil #1 and #4 High Voltage) This brings up a point that Hammer Time first mentioned, namely that there is only one coil on this engine and, I presume one control circuit.
I did note that Discretesignals recommended one of two final checks (both of which seem beyond me), before concluding the VCM or PCM or ECM ie., the "computer", is kaput. I've been pricing them (between $110 and $200 plus a "computer set-up" fee. The biggest problem is I've been told they have to ship them off (to Florida or somewhere) in order to do this -if it is possible (according the vehicle ID, the part # and whatever else?) Is this the only way to change out the VCM ? I appreciate all the help I have been getting at CarJunky.com

Response From Discretesignals

By grounding the IC circuit and getting the P1361, you pretty much confirmed that the circuit between the ICM connector and the PCM is good. It would be really nice to see that waveform on the circuit when you crank the engine to even see if the PCM is generating a signal for confirmation, but I think you pretty much have gone as far as you can with what you have. If it was generating the correct pattern signal, I would say you probably are looking at a defective ICM. It is going to be unlikely that you would have three ICM in row that are faulty, but there is always a possibility.

The VCM does need to be programmed for your vehicle's options. The VIN allows the programmer to select the correct calibration to program the VCM with. You have to understand that the same VCM can be used in other vehicles with different options. The VCMs are physically the same, but its the software that makes them different.

Response From b_oneself

Rats. Could you please confirm where exactly the VCM is located. This is a Savannah 3500 van (box truck). For some reason I thought the computer was accessed inside the cab on the driver's side, inside the fender well just below the spot the brake pedal goes into the master cylinder. Now I'm wondering whether it is inside that black hard plastic case directly below the master and power steering fluid reservoir (that has been leaking onto that plastic case for years- it's very soaked with that fluid) that you get to from the front hood, right next to the fuse box/power distribution station. I can't believe they would put the VCM in such a vulnerable place that looks like it's really difficult to extract. Plus it has 4 distinct harness plugs going into it. The computer harness plug-in connectors I've seen before are always in a long row held by a couple screws -and located in a protected area (inside the vehicle). Is it possible I am looking at the wrong place?

Response From Discretesignals

It is in on the left side of the engine compartment on the fender right underneath the fuse relay center and PS reservoir. It does have four connectors with a lot of wires. PS fluid leaking all over it isn't a good thing.

Response From b_oneself

Alright dear experts,
As per post #27, #32, & #34 (Disgretesignals), I should like to present my latest activities and findings. I ended up replacing my computer (PCM, VCM), had it reprogrammed-calibrated, and did a number of further tests to diagnose the no start/ no spark problem. I acquired the full wiring schematic for the engine (from every terminal # on the ECM - all the #'s from the 4 connectors), checked the power leads and grounds going from the harness (4 connectors) to the VCM and everything checked out. Replaced the ICM and coil and crankshaft position sensor (CKP) once more. My mechanic buddy noted that the space from the magnetic pick-up of the CKP to corresponding rotating metal inside the timing chain cover was at least a 1/4 inch, more than he has seen before. The book says minimum gap .030 but does not mention maximum space. We definitely have 12 V and ground and good signal wire to VCM from CKP. In addition when my buddy simulates the CKP signal by moving the (removed) CKP in and out of the magnetic zone (metal/ground) we hear the injector signals going off but still no spark from coil secondary. He keeps thinking: the ICM, the coil, the CKP and now the VCM with all the wiring/fuses checking out correctly -what else could there be???? The latest jab is going to be to disconnect the fuel injector connector, and then each subsequent connector, one at a time, and see if there isn't some short causing an incorrect signal to "double-back" to the VCM and preventing the interruption of that 1-4 volts to the trigger in the VCM. This same buddy (who knows way more than me) did get a waveform report on his more sophisticated scanner tool that definitely showed an abnormal pattern. Furthermore, he is beginning to wonder whether the camshaft position sensor (CMP) -which works with the CKP, in some unknown way, within the VCM) is messing up and preventing the spark.
I'm going after it again tomorrow. Any new ideas to help uncover this perplexing puzzle?

Response From Discretesignals

Can you post a pic of the abnormal waveform?

Back probe the coil connector on the white IC control wire and connect a voltmeter and measure the voltage at that wire with the ignition turned on.

If you show no voltage, take a 12 volt test light and connect it to battery positive. With the ignition turned on take the probe and tap on the back probe. Don't hold the probe on there, tap on it like your doing morse code. See if the coil fires.

Response From b_oneself

D.S.,
No, I cannot, at the moment, send the waveform we saw on my friend's Snap-on diagnostic scanner tool (Vantage MT2400-"Power Graphing Meter"). I am too ignorant -(barely learned how to use the computer and navigate cyberspace). But, I can describe it. The tool demonstrated what the pulse should look like: it looked like 3 tall, skinny, identical, rectangular skyscrapers. The waveform we observed when measuring the signal at the CKP looked like one big fat rectangle -went immediately up the graph, then all along across the top until nearly the end of the screen, -and then down again to the bottom.
I did back probe the coil connector wire (the same wire that delivered 12 volts to wire (D- white/black) with the key in run position). That wire showed .02 volts with key off, and no volts with key on. Then we did the morse code test on the white IC control wire (the same one that puts out 1-4 volts with the starter cranking) and sure enough we get a strong spark from the coil wire (secondary circuit) that goes to the distributor. The weird thing is when we back probed the voltage on the IC trigger wire on the ICM we got the following: 1.16 volts with the key off, 3.6 volts with key on. I have the scanner tool with me but I'm not sure where to go next.

Response From Discretesignals

The trigger bypass with the test lamp proved that your ignition module and coil are good.

Channel 1 on the scope has to be back probed into the white IC wire at the ignition module. Connect your ground wire to a back probe on the black/white wire at the ICM. Make sure the back probes don't touch each other. The signal is a 0-5 V signal, so you want to set your scope's voltage range close, but not under 5 volts. It's going to be a fast signal, so you probably want your time base around 5ms/division. Your going to have to play with the time base, so you can see the full wave form. Turn your trigger on repeat and set it for the rising edge of the slope at around 1 volt. You don't need an attenuator connected.

Crank the engine and watch the signal. It should be a continuous square wave signal between .4 to 4.5 volts as long as your cranking the engine.

It's funny, but I just had a 96 Chevy 1500 with a 5.7L in the shop today. I should of scoped the trigger signal and posted it, so you could see what a good one looks like.

If you have a camera, can you film the scope? You can upload a video file into a video hosting site like YouTube and then send us the link, so we can analyze your signal.

Response From Discretesignals

I just remembered the boss has a 97 Chevy truck 350 Vortec. I'll scope that tomorrow and post the waveform.

This is a guess, but I'm thinking that you have a short to power on that white IC wire somewhere. The reason i'm thinking this is because you stated you had 3 volts sitting on the IC circuit with the key on and you had zero volts on the control side of the coil.

What that is telling me is that some other circuit that has power is shorting to the IC circuit wire and triggering the ignition module transistor to turn on all the time. With the transistor on all the time when the ignition is on or while cranking, the coil is going to be on all the time too. The coil doesn't produce a spark until the transistor is turned off. The waveform would verify this theory. This theory would also explain why the PCM keeps setting the P1351 high volt circuit code. Inspect that white wire really well all the way back to the PCM. Focus on the area you had power steering fluid leaking on to the PCM.

Response From b_oneself

Thanks D.S.,
- for sticking with this, for directing me toward a solution here, and for surmising a little about the real culprit in this mystery. I am going back to the project as soon as it stops raining. I do have a camera, but as I said I'm a definite novice when it comes to uploading, downloading, e.g., - You-Tube, etc. The only thing I'm adept at is sending a picture to an e-mail address. I'll have to study that Vantage scanner tool extensively to even perform the test you suggested, so the first thing on my agenda is to follow the line of logic in your educated guess. This is essentially my mechanic buddy's theory as well. This is why he was suggesting unplugging each connector (all the circuits), one at a time, to see if I can locate a spark from the coil -even if the engine can't start. Then perhaps I can trace how power is shorting to the IC (white) wire on the ICM. Bob

Response From Hammer Time

If you have a Vantage, that's not a scanner. It's a portable labscope/DVOM meter. It won't read codes or data.

Response From Discretesignals

This is what the ignition control module trigger signal should look like on the IC circuit. I applogize for the noise on the signal. I was in a hurry cause the boss needed his truck.

With the ignition on engine off, there should be no voltage whatsoever on that circuit.


Signal at 10ms time base

Response From Discretesignals

What's the latest and greatest? Curious how this one is turning out.

Response From b_oneself

D.S.,
I'm going after the no spark problem again today. I've already been tracing many of the wires that go to the VCM, checking for continuity, shorts, etc. I will give a more extensive report later in the day. I'll definitely be communicating about this nagging (and expensive!) dilemma until I get to the bottom of the mystery. And, thank-you Discretesignals, for staying with me on this tricky one. You and the rest of the bunch at CarJunky.com are a great asset to the school of automotive diagnosis. Bravo!

Response From miracleworker

Have you tried this: Make sure everything is hooked up as it should be on the engine. Take a deep breath. Close your eyes. Say a little prayer. Then see whether the engine will start.

Response From b_oneself

You won't believe this. After weeks of hair-pulling, convoluted, spending-money-out-of-control frustration with my "no spark" problem - after investing countless hours (my time as well as everybody else's) - after getting past numerous hurdles e.g., bad connectors, inaccurate trouble codes, and replacing the ignition control module (ICM) and coil 3 times, the pick-up in the distributor, the crankshaft position sensor (CKP) twice, and finally the computer (VCM) (along with the reprogramming), after all this desperate inquiry into the "no spark" condition...
...I was left in such a quandary that I followed the advice of the last one to post here, some "miracleworker". I did exactly as this one suggested, and do you know what? It started right up. It is running great -like never before! It doesn't make sense, but it's like it is a miracle. This is unbelievable!

Response From Hammer Time

Just a bad case of "overanalyzing"

Response From b_oneself

****************************************************************************8
****************************************************************************
************************APRIL FOOLS*****************************************
****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************
Alright, Okay, a little sense of humor, -don't cut me off, it's just a little practical joke!
(thanks to my niece for playing "miracleworker")
No, it wasn't really as simple as that. I wish reality could be so easy. Actually, there was some substantial progress, though, in today's endeavors, i.e., we got spark!, we found the culprit and and the engine starts. However, a new problem has developed- (i.e.; the engine shuts down 15 seconds after it starts up and runs) Because of the unusual way I stumbled into the "clue" that cornered the precise cause for my lack of spark I would like to report, in full detail, the extent of my discovery in a subsequent post where I can list the test results, divulge further critical information, and expose my method so I can ask again your advise on what I did wrong and what perhaps I can do about it. Since that explanation is rather lengthy, I just wanted to send this as a heads up before I expound on what happened in greater detail. Still, after all...it did feel a little miraculous.

Response From Discretesignals

LOL...your too much.

I caught on just at the last minute you probably kicked your post out. I am sure you got HT though.

Response From b_oneself

Okay, here is part I of a 4 part report. It was supposed to follow DS post #51.
************************************************************************
Part I (of 4)


Masters,
I confess, I was hoping I could pull somebody's leg. I didn't want to go too far out on a limb for fear HT would pound me out of cyber-space. Seriously, before I get to the new problem, I thought it would be valuable to disclose some of the following background leading up to the discovery of what kept the engine from firing.
I traced all pertinent wires to the VCM (the IC trigger wire (B)- the signal wire #9, and the CKP signal wire -#31 & ground wire -#28) None of these wires had any continuity to ground or to any other wire in the 4/ plug connectors going into the VCM (WHITE,BLUE,RED,BLACK).
I began, one at a time, disconnecting the various sensors, plugs, etc. in the FI system to check for spark at the secondary coil wire while cranking the engine ---to no avail. I noticed during the process a series of tiny "clicking" noises inside that plastic intake manifold every time I turn the key on or off (even with the injector harness plug disconnected) Normal?


...................................to be continued...............................................................

Response From b_oneself

Part II (of 4)

I returned to what I believe to be the crux of the problem and it couldn't be put better than this, -(I wish I knew how to utilize the quote function in this forum) "What is triggering the ICM to be on all the time? With the transistor on all the time when the ignition is on or while cranking, the coil is going to be on all the time too. This theory would also explain why the PCM keeps setting the P1351 high volt circuit code" Discretesignals post #40 (And the waveform did verify this theory -one, continuous signal pattern, up to 4 volts, but never "breaking".)
I did re-check the disconnected plug at the ICM (A,B,C,D) and got the proper readings following the diagnostic chart previously posted by DS. (12 volts at (A and D) when key is in run position, good ground at (C), and 1-4 AC volts at (B) during cranking. The only remaining question concerns my reading of DC volts on (B) with the key off - .002 volts and with key on -- .004 volts. According to DS , "there should be no volts whatsoever". Is it possible that reading is just my volt/ohm meter goofing up?
Next I was lead to the clue that cornered the culprit in this nasty drama.

.....................................to be continued....................................................................

Response From b_oneself


Part III (of 4)


I decided to check the voltage on the ICM by back-probing (with my volt meter on 12 volts DC) to see if I could observe a break in the signal. I started with the IC trigger wire (B) that comes from the VCM (A double mistake- First, I didn't disconnect the plug at the ICM, and second, I had it on the DC scale while testing an AC signal. Cf: DS post #10.) My friend's assertion is that that circuit is an AC signal to or from the VCM and the ICM and the CKP. So guess what happens during this improper test? It fires! I turned the engine off in two seconds and it got me to thinking. I just grounded the coil signal through the volt/ohm meter, so it could finally break the voltage and produce spark...which made me conclude that just because the connector on the ICM checks out when it is unplugged, it doesn't mean it is communicating with the terminals inside the ICM. Then, remembering the advice of Tom Greenleaf, Cf: post #29 and #30, I improvised a better connection to the ICM and...what do you know? It fires up immediately, every time, but now there is a new, different problem. It only runs about 10 seconds and then shuts down, -every time. What I am worried about is my jamming 12 volts DC down a 2 volt AC circuit and maybe I fried something.

.......................................to be continued........................................................

Response From b_oneself

Part IV (of 4)

Now, sheesh, I have a different challenge, - what fun. It seemed to me that the fuel pump was working in the crank and run position -which makes me ponder why it immediately cuts out, (fuel or spark?) It sounds like I have solved one issue only to have created another one. What did I forget to do? I still haven't bolted the computer back in yet in case I need to retrieve it. And there was a procedure I was suppose to go through with the VCM once I get the engine running consistently. I suppose I will have to borrow my friend's scanner tool again to see if I am getting any new trouble codes. (Right, not the Vantage diagnostic tool, -thank you HT, I am a glutton when it comes to correction.) After following this sorry saga anyone have any ideas?, poignant comments?, wild guesses?,...............revelations?..............jokes?

Response From Discretesignals

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge attached to see if the pressure drops out before it dies. Does it restart after it dies?

You still have that oscilloscope? Does your buddy know how to use it? That scope can find out what is dropping out to make the engine quit. You just have to know how to use it and where to hook it.

Response From b_oneself

I'm on it tomorrow! My buddy does have said tools and know-how and will be willing to look into this. That would be the scanner tool now, or the Vantage tool? He suggested I just hot wire the fuel pump to be on all the time, after the relay, to determine the fuel/spark question. It does restart immediately -each time after it dies. Thanks again for all your support. (I'll check back as soon as I've got more info.) B-1

Response From b_oneself Top Rated Answer



**************VICTORY!************** Well, almost. I believe I am close to the end of this unsolicited puzzle. I am delighted to report that for the first time since I my initial post on March 13, my engine is up and running -though I am not completely out of the woods yet. The present status is as following:

1) I did discover a vacuum leak, repaired it, and when the engine finally started I encountered no trouble code P0171 or P0174 on the scanner. Problem solved. Thanks once more for getting me past this hurdle.

2) As per my condition yesterday, it turns out there was a GM PASSLOCK relearn procedure necessary as a precondition when replacing the VCM. Once I accomplished this, the engine started right up and continued to run and idle nicely.

3) However, I have two remaining new codes that popped up (P0340 and P1336) - but, I think I can deal with both of these. The P1336 refers to the GM Crankshaft Variation relearn procedure that one must do if the VCM has been reprogrammed or replaced the CKP has been replaced. (I actually don't have that function in this Scat scanner tool but my buddy says that's all gobbily-gook and that if you just drive it 40 miles it will automatically reset the CKP sensor variation.
The P0340 describes a problem with camshaft position sensor (CMP), and when I touched the connector for the CMP on the distributor I noticed a drop in the RPM -and then again a rise when I wiggled the connector. I am confident I can strengthen that connector (Cf: post #29 and #30) and make that trouble code P0340 disappear. *Update*-I have just confirmed that I was correct on this point. I subsequently "re-enforced" the connectors in all three problem areas.

4) As a footnote, or maybe an appendix: I am reflecting on all the many steps in this journey to get this vehicle on the road, including the detours, the mistakes, the purchases, the lessons and, of course, the top-notch help we get from the moderators (and everyone else) on this wonderful, professional forum, and for all of it, (except the wasted money), I am most grateful. I cannot help but look over the entire adventure and ask, Why?. I don't mean this in the most profound philosophical sense, but rather, why did I get stuck? Consider this: the P1351, P0340 codes came down to a bad connection at the ICM and the CMP. The other thing that through us for a loop was another bad connection at the coil. Weird, (or maybe not so weird) - I'm trying to connect the dots. I don't really believe the coincidence of 3 connectors going bad at once. On the other hand each of the corresponding parts to be plugged into (ie., the ICM, the CMP in the distributor, and the coil) are all aftermarket parts recently replaced! It's my theory that these aftermarket manufacturers are outside the specs that make for a good snug fit. Anyway I'm off to complete this mission, test my theories, and hopefully get the van through the CA smog test by the end of the month. If I don't pass or get stumped again I'll check back in. Otherwise,.....................Adios, and a most sincere THANK YOU

Response From supra200

im sorry after reading this thread "what was the exact problem"? vac leak? security issue? coil ground? bad wire? what?

Response From Sidom

Unfortunately this is one of the biggest problem here.....Poster will not comeback & close a thread with either the fix or I give up....

If you are having a problem go ahead a start a new thread & we see if we can help you out......We don't add new problems to old threads, it gets too confusing....

Response From Hammer Time

I guess we were ignoring the security warning on the dash all this time.

Response From Discretesignals

Passlock shouldn't kill the ignition, just the injectors. Passlock also won't kill the engine while it is running. Only disables the engine from starting.

You have all sorts of goofy things going on with those connectors. I honestly still don't understand the P1351 code showing up because of a connector problem, but that looks to be resolved.

Crankshaft variation doesn't learn by driving it around. You have to use a high end scan tool to do a crank learn. If you don't do the crank learn, the PCM will disable the misfire monitor or give you the wrong cylinders that are missing if it does end up missing.

Glad to see you got it going and good luck with your inspection.

Response From chickenhouse

Might also want to stop the leaking on the pcm.

Response From nickwarner

this is the longest damn post I have ever seen. Glad to see you followed instructions and have a running engine. I'm sure we will see you back.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Yep - site record I'm near sure. Glad thru all this there was such positive results. Thanks for the kind words for the techs and the site. I just did the heavy looking on. These guys are sharp no question.

Best of luck with the emissions test,

Tom

Response From b_oneself


Response From Tom Greenleaf

b_oneself - did you hit "post reply" before writing anything or was that part of April Fools Day antics?

If by mistake you can change in your settings to see what you posted right after and edit your own from there if a mistake.

BTW, I think this thread has set a site record for # of posts! No problem. The regulars and certainly all mods know how to deal with it,

The one you can Google with kitty as an avatar just to prove I'm not wrapped real tight!

Tom





PS: Go ahead and swat that bug - I almost did first time I saw that one..........

Response From b_oneself

Tom,
Alas, I did write a lengthy report last night (2:00 AM EDT) and when I went to post it I must have hit the wrong "button". (Maybe because it was a new day -April 2 ???) Rats, I wish I knew how to "check my settings" and see if I can pull it back up. No, that wasn't part of the April Fool's gag. I guess the joke's on me. I suppose I'm just going to have to re-type everything -and there was a lot to mention!

Response From b_oneself

Double rats!,
I just re-typed and re-posted my lengthy report and it was wiped out again! I know I was logged on like I was last night but when I pushed "post reply" it went back to the log-in page. When I logged in again my response was gone (an hour and half of typing). This time my computer followed with the message A fatal error has occurred: unable to post with a GET method at /home/carjunky............................................/post/write.pm line 915.

Response From Hammer Time

Reboot your computer and try again. Copy the answer before hitting post.

Response From b_oneself

Thanks, you guys,
I will re-boot, and re-post, and attempt to save. (my problem is I don't know how to paste it back in later if it does get lost) So I would like to send it via several separate, consecutive posts. Please be patient with me. -I am so lame in the digital world. But I really do need help with the present roadblock.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Look up top where it says "edit profile" and you can make changes there. Site's software can screw up itself also. I didn't check yours but suggest leaving your email address hidden as about anyone could click on your user name and get it then who knows.

Nobody, even moderators can dig out your registered email address and spammers do get in here but we remove them asap so if you ever search around some may say that it doesn't exist so one of us took it out and sorry if you get a notice of a reply made and nothing there but it just meant it was a junk post not welcomed.

You have a lot of posts on this thread and if annoying can click on "stop watching" on the notice you get. I don't control anything here but will try to make old threads automatically be just locked as archived to stop notices on a done thread,

Carry on,

Tom

Response From Discretesignals



I guess you exorcised the demons. You guys aren't pulling my chain are ya? It is April 1st

Response From b_oneself

So then is it necessary to pull the master, the metal brake lines, the power steering fluid reservoir, -more? before one can get at the VCM. Now that you have clarified the location I'm trying to see about finding that particular ground on the unit you mentioned previously. I obviously did not see it before. (as a last ditch effort to avoid this ultimate verdict about the VCM). Thanks, Bob

Response From b_oneself

Finally, a minor (or maybe even major) breakthrough! This post concerns the confusion arising over the issue of whether or not I was getting 12 volts at the (D) terminal of the ICM. And here's to the value of double-checking -or repetitive validating in the scientific method: OK, so here's the deal. Following all the procedures carefully and by the book I check the (D) terminal on the ICM and get nothing. I repeat the process and now I get 12 volts. I repeat the test many times over, sometimes getting 12 volts, sometimes nothing. I realize eventually that connector on the coil definitely has a way loose connection. (My harness has only 2 wires (A & C) -no (B) because there is no tachometer in the vehicle. Even though the two wires are snugly in the plastic (no movement at all), there is clearly much slop between the male & female when plugged in - meaning either the posts (pins) in the new coil are a slightly smaller dimension, or my female connector plug (receptacle) is worn out, ie., the hole is too big. I'll work on resolving that loose fit next chance I get. I can imagine why this is preventing the engine from getting spark. Is there any chance it could also be the cause of my P1351 trouble code? It would be great to have this van starting again.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

If you found a sloppy connection like that I'd concentrate on that. Your call and I'm not looking at this connection but there are things you can do to make them work dependably depending on just how they are made - things like torquing/twisting the male or a gentle squish on a female or take very small screwdriver and see if it can be persuaded without harming it,

T

Response From speed

i see, lol im still learning thankyou for clearing all that up though DS

Response From b_oneself

Oh boy. I don't know if you recognize this thread being related to that one entitled "power problem" from back in early Jan. That was the one where you (Hammer Time) walked me through a long process of diagnosing, in the end, a bad fuel pump (because I kept jumping to conclusions prematurely) Naturally, since I did eventually replace the pump -which corrected the problem *thank-you very much*, and because I observed the pump currently working during pre-load and in starting mode I didn't even consider the possibility of a fuel problem. Plus, I injected starter fluid into the intake boot at the air cleaner and still no combustion. Nevertheless, fuel pressure is a fair question -if only to eliminate that fundamental concern (min. 55psi). So I'll go borrow that "known working" fuel pressure tester and confirm I've got enough. Still, I am wondering if that P1351 code isn't spark related. Despite my attempt to eliminate the PO171 & PO174 -(and you pointed to the vacuum leaks I found), this engine has been starting and running great ever since the fuel pump fixed the "power problem" in Jan. It suddenly stopped starting yesterday. To be continued...when there is more info/ideas

Response From Discretesignals

You probably don't have any spark, since spraying the intake didn't make the engine start, pop, or do anything.

If your getting that P1351 code which sets when the engine is cranking all the time, that probably means that the PCM can't signal the ignition control module or the ignition control module died. Testing would verify that. You could have a defective ignition control module even though it is a replacement. The ignition control module also needs a light coat of thermal paste when you screw it to the heat sink. You don't paste it and it will burn up or fail early.

No ignition module activity, power or ground missing to the module, open in primary circuit from the coil, or no trigger signal to the module from the PCM and you won't have any spark. Of course, an open in the primary circuit from the coil won't cause a P1351.

Response From b_oneself

Gotcha. That's where I think I should go next. (I did the thermal paste thing, but maybe I did it wrong or maybe the part is defective?) Thanks for the suggestions. Both of you, -all of you. What a great forum!

Response From Hammer Time

My fuel pressure question was triggered by the lean codes

Response From b_oneself

Discrete One and Hammer Time,
I should also like to add that we did replace the dist. module, the coil, and the pick-up in the dist. at the same time ( just previous to) the corrective repair, i.e., the fuel pump. (We also replaced wiring to the fuse box "relay station", the fuel pump relay, the fuel pressure regulator, spark plugs, upstream O/2 sensors, checked for blockage in the exhaust & more - cf. "power problem" (Jan. 6, 2012) I'm going to try and carefully follow the advice I am gratefully receiving from you two. I'm also trying to apply a little logic and add some common sense to the puzzle at present, and given the limitations of resources.(I do have a good volt-om meter)
Much appreciated, Bob

Using spare key stopped engine from stalling and CEL now off

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Question From Jdgstl on Using spare key stopped engine from stalling and CEL now off

My 2011 Buick LaCrosse CXL 4 cylinder began to experience engine stalling out when I would attempt to start from a stop or drive at very slow speeds. Putting it into low gear at these times the shifting up to normal drive would get me "around" the issue. The check engine light read P0011 which I was told was a camshaft position sensor error. I replaced it and still had the problem.

I took it to a local technician and they replaced the crankshaft sensors. Car still stalled at low RPMs. Check engine light Remained on with the added issue of the cars computer no longer communicating.

On a whim from reading a to not forum discussions on similar problems, I switched keys to the extra key I had. Car drives fine now. CEL is off and the engine does not die at low RPMs. Car hasn't stalled out at all!

What is the issue? Ignition related part? I'm afraid to assume the problem has been fixed just by using the alternate key.

Response From Discretesignals

Haven't heard of a crank sensor causing a stall only at idle. Don't really understand why using the spare key would solve your issue. The ignition key or key less transmitter has a transponder, but that is used by the immobilizer and shouldn't cause your data bus to go down, stalling, or P0011 code to show up.

Did you have any aftermarket equipment installed or something hanging off the key chain that produced a radio signal or could cause EMI? Did this stalling issue just show up one day or has it been doing this for a while? Maybe it is just a coincidence and the problem is intermittent?

Response From Jdgstl

Actually. I do have an "aftermarket" wiring kit that allowed me to upgrade the stock radio to the OEM navigation package. It's been in my vehicle for a year and half though with no previous problems.

I already shelled out $600 to a local repair shop and hate to take it back to the dealer unless I can figure out the reason why the alternate key has negated the previous problem.

Response From Discretesignals

Very strange. The 11's are still kind of new to show up in the independents, so haven't run into that situation.

The P0011 is a camshaft sensor performance code. It doesn't necessary mean the sensor is faulty or has an electrical issue. It just means the computer was expecting the camshaft to be at a certain position and it wasn't.

The ECM detects the difference between the desired camshaft position angle and the actual camshaft position angle is greater than 5 degrees for greater 2.5 s.

This does have variable valve timing it is possible for the engine to stall or run really bad if the camshaft wasn't at the right position at idle speeds. Of course, that code may of had nothing to do with it stalling, but there is always a possibility. Looking at freeze frame data when it coded may have given some clues. Did the code ever come back?

Was there anything on the key chain with the original key? Just strange that the data bus was affected by this. I guess time will tell.

Response From Jdgstl

The code has not returned as of today. And as far as I can tell both keys are identical.

Response From Jdgstl

Broke down and made an appointment to have dealer look at it. I'll advise when I get results.

Thanks to all who have brainstormed this conundrum!

Response From Double J Top Rated Answer

Your vehicle MAY be involved in this recall.
Call your dealer with your vehicle VIN (vehicle Identification Number) to see if its included.
Either way, may be the fix for it.

Subject: 11195B – Rough Idle, Poor Driveability - Reprogram Engine Control Module Models: 2011 Buick LaCrosse, Regal 2011 Chevrolet Equinox 2011 GMC Terrain Equipped with a 2.4L Gas Engine (LAF)
Reminder: Vehicles that have been delivered to customers MUST have the camshaft position actuator solenoid valves replaced, in addition to reprogramming the ECM . Please discard all copies of bulletin 11195A, issued August 2011. Condition:

General Motors has decided to conduct a Voluntary Emission Recall involving certain 2011 Buick LaCrosse, Regal; Chevrolet Equinox; and GMC Terrain vehicles equipped with a 2.4L gas engine (LAF). On these vehicles, the camshaft position actuator solenoid may stick, resulting in the illumination of the malfunction indicator light, rough idle, poor driveability, and/or possible stalling at low throttle opening. Correction

Dealers are to reprogram the engine control module and, if necessary, replace the camshaft position actuator solenoid valves. Vehicles involved

Involved are certain 2011 model year Buick LaCrosse, Regal; Chevrolet Equinox; and GMC Terrain vehicles equipped with a 2.4L gas engine (LAF).
Important: Dealers are to confirm vehicle eligibility prior to beginning repairs by using the Required Field Actions section in the Global Warranty system. Not all vehicles may be involved.
For dealers with involved vehicles, a listing with involved vehicles containing the complete vehicle identification number, customer name, and address information has been prepared and will be provided to US and Canadian dealers through the GM GlobalConnect Recall Reports, or sent directly to export dealers. Dealers will not have a report available if they have no involved vehicles currently assigned.
The listing may contain customer names and addresses obtained from Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any purpose other than follow-up necessary to complete this recall is a violation of law in several states/provinces/countries. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this report to the follow-up necessary to complete this recall. Parts Information

Parts required to complete this recall are to be obtained from General Motors Customer Care and Aftersales (GMCC&A). Please refer to your “involved vehicles listing” before ordering parts. Normal orders should be placed on a DRO = Daily Replenishment Order. In an emergency situation, parts should be ordered on a CSO = Customer Special Order.
Part Number
Description
Quantity/Vehicle
12628347
Valve, Cm/Shf Posn Actr Int Sol
1 (If Req’d)
12628348
Valve, Cm/Shf Posn Actr Exh Sol
1 (If Req’d) Service Procedure

Determine the vehicle status.

  • If the vehicle is still in dealer inventory, reprogram the ECM with the latest calibration. Refer to ECM Programming in this bulletin. Do NOT replace the camshaft position actuator solenoid valves.
  • If the vehicle has been delivered to the customer, reprogram the ECM and replace the camshaft position actuator solenoid valves. Refer to Engine Controls – Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid Valve Replacement in SI.

  • ECM Programming
    Do not attempt to order the calibration number from GM Customer Care and Aftersales. The calibration numbers required for this service procedure are programmed into control modules via a Multiple Diagnostic Interface (MDI) or Tech 2® diagnostic scan tool and TIS2WEB with the calibration update. Use TIS2WEB on or after 6/23/11 to obtain the calibration. If you cannot access the calibration, call the Techline Customer Support Center at 1-800-828-6860 (English) or 1-800-503-3222 (French) and it will be provided. Make sure your Tech 2® diagnostic scan tool is updated with the latest software version or verify that the multiple diagnostic interface (MDI) that is being used is configured to the PC that will be used. Clear any codes and verify the condition has been corrected.
    For step-by-step programming instructions, please refer to SI and the Techline Information System (TIS) terminal.
    1. Verify that there is a battery charge of 12 to 15 volts. The battery must be able to maintain a charge during programming. Only use an approved Midtronics® PSC 550 Battery Maintainer (SPS Programming Support Tool EL-49642) or equivalent to maintain proper battery voltage during programming.
    2. Reprogram the engine control module (ECM). Refer to SI and Service Programming System (SPS) documentation for programming instructions, if required.
      1. Connect the MDI to the vehicle. Connect the MDI to the programming terminal with a cable (USB or LAN).
      2. Select J2534 MDI and Reprogram ECU from the Select Diagnostic Tool and Programming Process screen.
      3. Select ECM Engine Control Module—Programming from the Supported Controllers screen.
      4. Follow the on-screen instructions.
    3. Clear all DTCs.
    4. If the vehicle has been delivered to the customer, replace the camshaft position actuator solenoid valves. Refer to Engine Controls – Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid Valve Replacement in SI.
    5. CALIFORNIA, CONNECTICUT, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, MAINE, OREGON, VERMONT, & WASHINGTON vehicles only: Install a Recall Identification Label.