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Motorcraft
2009 Ford Focus Brake Master Cylinder Motorcraft

P311-20C84BD    New

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Motorcraft Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • Electronic Stability Control
Brand: Motorcraft
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2009 - Ford Focus
Motorcraft
2011 Ford Focus Brake Master Cylinder Motorcraft

P311-20C84BD    New

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$113.03
Motorcraft Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • From 07/16/2010
Brand: Motorcraft
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2011 - Ford Focus
Motorcraft
2011 Ford Focus Brake Master Cylinder Motorcraft

P311-20C84BD    New

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$113.03
Motorcraft Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • To 07/16/2010, Electronic Stability Control
Brand: Motorcraft
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2011 - Ford Focus
Motorcraft
2007 Ford Edge Brake Master Cylinder Motorcraft

P311-39D729D    New

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$114.67
Motorcraft Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
Brand: Motorcraft
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2007 - Ford Edge
PBR
1980 Ford Bronco Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-22F6586    New

Qty:
$60.66
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
Brand: PBR
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1980 - Ford Bronco
PBR
1985 Ford E-150 Econoline Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-22F6586    New

Qty:
$60.66
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • Production: -09/1985
Brand: PBR
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1985 - Ford E-150 Econoline
PBR
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$60.66
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • with Power Brakes
Brand: PBR
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1984 - Ford E-150 Econoline Club Wagon
PBR
1991 Ford Taurus Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-3611B2E    New

Qty:
$91.48
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • Excludes Wagon
Brand: PBR
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1991 - Ford Taurus
PBR
1991 Ford Taurus Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-3611B2E    New

Qty:
$91.48
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • Except Wagon
Brand: PBR
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1991 - Ford Taurus
PBR
1990 Ford Taurus Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-3611B2E    New

Qty:
$91.48
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
Brand: PBR
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1990 - Ford Taurus
PBR
1992 Ford Crown Victoria Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-4F7DF9B    New

Qty:
$87.05
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • with ABS
Brand: PBR
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1992 - Ford Crown Victoria
PBR
1993 Ford Crown Victoria Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-4F7DF9B    New

Qty:
$87.05
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • Excludes Police with ABS
Brand: PBR
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1993 - Ford Crown Victoria
PBR
1992 Ford Escort Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-42DFE91    New

Qty:
$71.45
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
Brand: PBR
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1992 - Ford Escort
PBR
1992 Ford Escort Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-42DFE91    New

Qty:
$71.45
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • 4-Line Cylinder
Brand: PBR
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1992 - Ford Escort
PBR
1992 Ford Escort Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-177B84E    New

Qty:
$86.70
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
Brand: PBR
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1992 - Ford Escort
PBR
1992 Ford Escort Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-177B84E    New

Qty:
$86.70
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • 4-Line Cylinder
Brand: PBR
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1992 - Ford Escort
PBR
1992 Ford E-250 Econoline Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-40C8C1F    New

Qty:
$24.23
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • with Single Rear Wheels (Cylinder does not have Metering Valve)
Brand: PBR
This Product is Eligible for Free Ground Shipping
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Vehicle
1992 - Ford E-250 Econoline
PBR
1994 Ford Escort Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-0E737A5    New

Qty:
$99.98
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
Brand: PBR
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1994 - Ford Escort
PBR
1993 Ford Aerostar Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-336A0B5    New

Qty:
$86.67
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • w/o sensor
Brand: PBR
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Vehicle
1993 - Ford Aerostar
PBR
1997 Ford Crown Victoria Brake Master Cylinder PBR

P311-151C7E7    New

Qty:
$103.42
PBR Brake Master Cylinder
  • This Original Equipment Manufacturer part is the same part that was made & installed by the car manufacturer at the factory where the car was produced.
  • with ABS w/o Traction Control w/o Police Package
Brand: PBR
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1997 - Ford Crown Victoria

Latest Ford Repair and Brake Master Cylinder Installation Advice

CarJunky AutoAdvice

1985 Ford F-250 Clutch pedal staying on the floor

Showing 2 out of 20 Posts | Show 18 Hidden Posts
Question From scottyboy1973 on 1985 Ford F-250 Clutch pedal staying on the floor

Got ready to drive. Pushed in the clutch and heard a snap. push in the clutch and the pedal is staying on the floor. Have changed the clutch master cylinder and the slave cylinder. Dont Know what else to do.

1985 ford f-250 7.5 liter 460 with about 220000 miles.

any help would be greatly appreciated...

Response From Discretesignals

Clutch fork loose down on the transmission?

Response From scottyboy1973

No its not loose at all..

Response From Discretesignals

Clutch fork move if you press down on the pedal?

Also check the clutch pedal and make sure it moves the master cylinder push rod

Did the old master or slave blow out or was low on fluid?

Response From Discretesignals

Bleeding is a pain on those.

Response From scottyboy1973

Clutch fork is not moving. clutch pedal moves master cylinder push rod, but not the slave cylinder push rod. changed both cylinders trying to fix the problem, but didnt seem to help.

Response From Hammer Time

I believe I have done the bleeding correctly.

Not if you still don't have a pedal. These can be very, very difficult to get the air out because the bleeder is at the bottom and the air rises to the top.

Response From scottyboy1973

I believe I have done the bleeding correctly.

Response From scottyboy1973

Do you have any tricks on how to do it right. I dont know much about clutchs...

Response From Hammer Time

We have pressure bleeders, vacuum bleeders and helpers and I have still spent numerous hours trying to get one of these bled out. Sometimes you can get the air to migrate out the top buy just sitting there and pumping and pumping until your leg feels like it's going to fall off.

Response From scottyboy1973

After I bleed the system, Will this solve my problem of the pedal being on the floor. it just seems like something in the pedal assembly is broken.

Response From Discretesignals

If there is enough air in the hydraulic system, the pedal will go to the floor.

Did you bench bleed the master before installing it?

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Do you have a helper available? That such that you can look while someone else is pushing the pedal and from inside no doubt would need a broom stick such that you could look while it's being pushed. Any parts fall out?

T

Response From scottyboy1973

I did not bench bleed the master cylinder. Dont know how to do that..

Response From Discretesignals Top Rated Answer

You bleed it off the vehicle as you would bench bleeding a brake master cylinder.

I've found success by taking the whole system off and getting the slave above the master and bleeding it that way. You want to tilt the master so the air can't be trapped. You need a helper because trying to hold the reservior and all that stuff is almost impossible by yourself. Once you get all the air out, then re-install the whole thing back on the truck as one piece.

I don't remember how it is set up on the master, but I remember doing one where I took the piston out of the master after removing a c clip and filled it up that way and then put it back together.

Response From scottyboy1973

I will definately try it. Nothing else seems ty be working. Ill let you know how it comes out...

Response From kensoncustom

might get light look under dash at peddle linkage ,usually snap means something broke,check for firewall separation at master cyl. mounting surface

Response From Discretesignals

Ken has a good point about checking the firewall to make sure it didn't crack.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Guess anything has to be ruled in or out. I've seen my share of whacked stuff- doors near fall off, several bumpers fall right off in the road - the HD real ones, not just the plastic crap but so far not a firewall but who the heck knows? I think they should salt roads more so even bridges collapse and do.

I want a horse. No, last ride dang thing decided it was the Kentucky Derby and stopped short at a fence and I went right over the fence! That was the LAST ride!

Perhaps we need my cat to help check this out - shes' good............



Tom

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Quote from an above post"I did not bench bleed the master cylinder. Don't know how to do that.."

Just a note on bench bleeding:

Chose a short YouTube that shows the idea. This show is just for a master cyl. but the same idea. If a kit doesn't come with a new master and I save them just make up your own from a piece of line bent to return under fluid back to master, hold master careful choose how to hold it in a vise, push on where pushrod would full strokes and then short strokes noting bubbles with just whatever works to push. I don't own the gadget tool shown and so far haven't needed it but would be easier to push as the pedal's push rod would.

This must be done even in cooperative master cylinders whether for brakes or a clutch or you'll do battle forever. With a bleeder on the bottom you are facing trouble out of the gate. Must if off car and like DS's trick - all off vehicle but must restrain the slave from blowing out its push action or piston in that would no doubt just pop out and could wreck it to reassemble?

The idea but a bit quick on how this person and hard to see how the master was held but shows the procedure. Hope that's of some help.



Tom

brakes

Showing 2 out of 2 Posts
Question From Guest on brakes

Hi I have a quick question. I have a 2002 Ford Taurus and I just had my brake pads and rotors replaced. I drove home and the brakes work great I pull in my driveway and walk in the house for about 5 minutes and when I go back outside I noticed a fluid under my car on the right side by the front tire. It is ALOT of fluid. So I get in the car and check the break pedal and it is still pretty hard so I go back out and it is still dripping whatever break fluid was left out on to the driveway. What happened?? I am trying to call the shop, but he is not answering the phone I cannot drive it back out there can I? There was so much fluid I thought it was my radiator. He is 22 miles away from my home. Any answers would be greatly appreciated. Thank You

Response From way2old Top Rated Answer

Is the brake master cylinder empty? If not, the fluid is something else. If master cylinder is empty, either a bleeder was left open, ruptured a piston seal, or broke a rubber hose going to the caliper. If it is out of fluid, I would not drive it back there.

Brakes don't work right

Showing 2 out of 22 Posts | Show 20 Hidden Posts
Question From jackx on Brakes don't work right

I am having a problem with my wife's Ford 2003 Escape. I went down to get
the car inspected today. It failed inspection. The tech said the brakes
failed to release. My wife has told me that sometimes it does not have
any brakes when she pushes on the pedal. Is this probably the power
brake booster going out. I can hear air coming from the pedal when ever
I push on the brakes. What do I need to do to determine what I need to
do to fix it.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

You mean the regular service brakes, not parking brake right?


If found that one is stuck it's usually a flex hose to that wheel's brake. If you hoist that wheel and open bleeder it then it releases the hose is bad. If so it may have harmed that side and need regular brake work having been too hot and one side worn more than the other. Do it all if that's what's happening.


I doubt the brake booster is doing this for now,


T

Response From jackx

No its not the emergency brake.

If its the flex hose what happened to it that would cause it to prevent the
brake from releasing? I assumed it was just a hose. I am having a hard time understanding
why a flex hose could cause the brake to lock up. I figured it was just a flexible hose.
Please explain so I will better understand.

I believe it is the back brakes because my son said it is dragging now but not pulling one way
or the other going down the road.

The only thing I could find that can cause a sticking brake is this:

"could just be bad calipers, period -- likely enough if it already needed one plus a master, the fluid in there was pretty ugly and with two components already down, the other three (plus junction block too) might be in poor shape too. Heat can make a slightly sticky caliper more sticky via the expansion principles underlying the above as well. Start with a good thorough medieval bleeding first, though, if saving money is a priority.

The other cause of sticking brakes is bad flex lines that balloon up/restrict the flow of fluid back when you release the pedal. If your flex lines look old they are cheap to replace and you don't want one to split on you.. "

I guess I will need to replace the flex hose if its bad. I think the rear brakes are dragging and they are drum
so it must be the rear flex hoses

I also will need to replace brake shoe and turn the drums too if they got so hot when they were locked up that they got
damaged. I guess the damage would be obvious in that the pads would be
badly worn and if worn too bad they may have scored the rotor too.


Am I understanding this right? Thanks for your help

Response From Hammer Time

Don't start changing anything yet. First, you have to determine which wheels are actually causing the problem. Now, the next time the brakes are locked go to the wheel that is locked, jack it up and open the bleeder. If it then releases, you ruled out the calipers and it's probably the hose.

Response From Discretesignals

My wife has told me that sometimes it does not have
any brakes when she pushes on the pedal. Is this probably the power
brake booster going out. I can hear air coming from the pedal when ever
I push on the brakes.

That sounds to me like the brake booster has a vacuum leak, but it doesn't jive with the brakes locking up. If you have a booster with a large enough vacuum leak, you won't have any power brakes and the vehicle will be really hard to stop.

video of a bad booster vacuum leak:

Response From jackx

Well she was saying she didn't have any brakes.

Then my son drove it down to get it inspected and it failed the inspection because of the brake drag.

He was driving it to see if he could hear the leak and he did not have any problems. He was trying to based on what she had told him determine if the booster was bad. Before he figured out if it was bad he found out the brakes were locking up.

I am thinking like you that what she said does not make any since and that truckl may be an additional problem I need to find out about. I will have to check it out and see if I can hear a leaking booster

. I guess there may be two brake problems. A bad booster that cause ever once in a while the
vehicle to not have any brakes and this other problem that arises when the brakes drag and lock up. That may be new
problem that has just rose its ugly head.

Truck only has 79k miles on it.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

jackx
It doesn't seem like YOU are going to fix this so send it out at ONCE as UNSAFE to use. The "he said/she said" it does this or that from dragging to no brakes then inspection didn't apparently tell you what was found just that it didn't work as it seems.


The comment are correct on this but doesn't matter till someone looks at it. Doubt the booster for now causing brake drag.


What to expect is one set or one wheel drags like posted up top and gets so hot fluid boils then not brakes when that hot. Perhaps those who drive this car should pay a little more attention and NOT drive a car that does things like this to those extremes.


Send this out. Can't even guess at this misinformation exactly but it probably will ruin one axle set needing about everything - not the world, an accident sure can be!


T

Response From jackx

I took it to a shop last night and will go down shortly to explain to them what the problem is
and to drop off my keys.

I did want to get a good idea of what is causing them to drag because
I want to discuss the problem with them as educated as possible.

These guys sometimes just replace stuff until they replace the right part. I don't want them replacing the booster if that is not the problem.

I will tell them that they need to look at the rear shoes and replace them if they are worn down and turn the drums then replace the flexible hoses. This is assuming they check the problem when the rear brakes are hot and locked up and they actually release them by opening the brake fluid bleeder. Hopefully they can tell if the hoses are the problem with out having to take the time to drive it until it locks up.

Those hydraulic hoses range from 8-20 bucks apiece. So I figure replacing both will cost about 20 bucks. So, if they decide to replace them because of their age and replacing them does not fix the problem I guess it won't break the bank. I just want the shoes and drums checked out and fixed if they need it and then those hoses replaced since from what I am being told generally they are the problem especially if they are old. I guess if they are on a 2003 model they are 12 years old even if the truck only has 79k miles on it. If that does not stop them from dragging I guess I will have to cross that bridge when I get to it. Main thing is to get it fixed and not drive it until it is safe.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

The right tech will find all that it needs. If not dragging but really does it would leave some evidence. Pads and rotors/drums alone really don't cause the issues but take the hit and can be really destroyed.


There's really no telling without total inspection. Pads can fall off metal backing, jam up or who knows over a variety of reasons and conditions it's been exposed to.


A good tech doesn't just throw things out until they stumble upon the problems but should see what's wrong and if per chance isn't doing it at the time find the evidence and take appropriate action.


Let then do their work such that the problem is solved and safe for a good next round of perhaps just a normal brake job meaning before such problems from ordinary time and use would cause,


T

Response From Tom Greenleaf

You just have to trust the person with this right in front of them. It takes training plus experience then this should be clear what to do for the tech.


True - if both wheels dragged on an axle you check what is in common to both and so on.


Side note to this is a chat with you said "son" who drove this 30 miles knowing something wasn't right! Nobody is expected to be a tech but should have some clue that you shouldn't be driving it that way.


I've seen the results of ignored dragging brakes, sometimes a parking brake left on that was operational or other that got so hot it melted trim parts off the wheel! Now tell me that didn't have symptoms?


Just FYI: Rear brakes if one drags a bit you might not notice and most do not pull because of the rear. Even slight issues with a front on one side will pull that way or then the other when brakes applied as near glowing one is starting to lose or lost friction so the good one grabs. Other times you might smell the problem if bad enough.


Be glad for now the problem is noticed and being taken care of. Being able to stop is not an option,


Tom

Response From jackx

yeah they are fixing to get on it. He told me usually if it is one wheel he has found it is usually the hose but if both
are locking up then it may be the master cylinder or the gizmo that is in the brake line between the master cylinder
and the wheel that splits the line so it can go to both wheels. He said he probably could just tell by the shoes if it is dragging on one or both rear wheels. I know my son drove it about 30 miles with it dragging so bad he could tell it. So,
I'm betting whichever is dragging will be obvious when he pulls the drum off. I assume he is headed in the right direction.

Response From jackx

I thought I would give an update.

After pulling the rear drums it was obvious they weren't dragging. Everything look new.

The front rotors were fine and none of the wheels was dragging when we jacked it up.

The mechanic told me the proportion valve was ok and was not leaking. So, the only thing to do was replace the master cylinder and power brake booster.

I called my son and found out that the only reason the inspector said the brakes were dragging was after you came to a full stop and let off the brake on a slope the truck did not start to roll forward when you let off the brake. My son said it had never done that before. ''

After talking to him it seemed to me and he agreed the speed of the pressure release to the brake cylinders seemed real slow making it seem like they were dragging. He said after you drove it and it warmed up it was even kinda hard to stop.

This tied into what the mechanic was saying when he said the pedal seemed hard to him. If the booster is bad you no longer have "Power" brakes.

I admit I don't drive the truck. I finally drove it today. The truck was cold when he had me drive it today. I didn't notice anything except when you let off the brakes and got off the pedal and it was stopped, the truck did seem to want to just set there and it took quite a bit of a push on the accelerator pedal to get it rolling again. Real sluggish.

The mechanic I took it to said the pedal seemed hard to him. He said sometimes the master cylinder (which
after looking at it does appear to be leaking) will leak into the booster and ruin it. He said if the booster
was bad it would show the symptoms the truck was showing.

He's putting a new master cylinder on it along with a new power booster. He told me the only thing he was not sure of was the ABS but if it was acting up it would throw a code.

I guess there is not much more to replace. This should fix it. Anyway, I got my fingers crossed.

Response From Hammer Time

Have they ruled out contamination in the master cylinder. If someone puts even a couple drops of a petroleum product like oil in the brake fluid it will ruin every rubber seal in the system and act a lot like what you are describing. That would be a very expensive mistake.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Quote back a couple ">>That would be very unusual to me short of contaminated brake fluid swelling up all rubber parts and tech should have noted a swollen rubber cap seal if so at least IMO."


Jackx: If that happened AND you use those speedy (especially those) oil change places hope you save your receipts as it would be a disaster.


That must be ruled out and would show it as said. Brake rubber will NOT tolerate oils and things get all topped off or should during oil changes hopefully with a check list.


If YOU do your own and even might have made that mistake say so to the tech. It's HIGHLY unusual to me perhaps just one vehicle perhaps 30 years ago and it did swell up master cylinder rubber, cap first then whole cylinder failed. That car left my hands so don't know how much went bad or if ever fixed or what else happened. THAT COULD FOOL the next person/tech!


Ask for parts back if any chance of that as the fix probably wouldn't last if so and need it all over again! Nasty,


Tom

Response From Tom Greenleaf

There seems to be some confusion as to just what the misbehavior was I think? Bad booster usually leaks and doesn't provide power assist when they fail not DRAG brakes that would make them hot which doesn't seem to be the case but rather just crept forward or back with what should have been normal brake application and didn't?


If master leaked (you said you saw that) and filled up the booster (never saw that happen) with fluid someone would have been constantly adding fluid even if over some long time that hopefully would be noticed.


It's a lot of "ifs" but fixed for now so you say and tech must have thought so. If funky problems meaning not just normal wear out problems happen soon fluid just might have had oil added?


TMK and not tested but told that oils like a transmission fluid or engine oil if added would float on top but in use over a short time would find its way to begin wrecking brake rubber parts anywhere it could touch and all along the way to each wheel possible is the fear if that happens and not noticed right away - minutes to correct that and still risky IMO that it's fine.


Would a shop or speedy place tell you - should but doubt it.


Pay attention to anything strange with a vehicle brakes or otherwise. Being on time really does save more damage or with brakes perhaps an accident that could have been avoided.


Let us know if anything isn't just right now - have to hope it is and if checked out probably is,


T

Response From jackx

Here's the feedback I promised. Looks like the new master cylinder and power booster fixed it.

I started it up backed it up pulled it forward. Hit the brakes then released the brakes and it immediately started rolling forward like it should. Before you had to nail the accelerator pedal pretty hard to get it to start moving again. This
resulted in the inspection tech flunking its annual inspection. He said they were dragging. He was wrong about that
I guess but they were definitely messed up. It does weird things I guess when the Booster is going bad. I guess
when it was going out it made my kid think the brakes were going out because it was hard to stop.

My son took off on a 50 mile trip. If I don't get any bad feedback then it's fixed.

Response From jackx Top Rated Answer

Yeah agree with everything you said. Lots of confusion. When we picked it up my son told
the mechanic that it was locking up and he could smell the pads. Well the pads, rotor and the
rear shoes were just like new.....weird...he is still saying the brakes were dragging and he could
even smell the pads.

There was no evidence of oil in the brake fluid either. No rubber seals were leaking either
before or after the work was done. I really don't know if the brake master cylinder was really leaking
that bad either. He brought it over about a month ago and someone had loosened up the brake line
going into the master cylinder. It was leaking and I just tightened it up. I filled it and it quit leaking. He told
me his wife had let some guys at a service station work on it and she thought they had loosened it
up and didn't tighten it back up.

He sent me a text message after he got home. He drove it 50 miles. He said it was fine now. I guess
the master cylinder and brake booster must have been causing him the problems.

These old cars are a constant problem aren't they. It is really hard sometimes to figure out what is wrong
based on what the customer is telling you. You have to read between the lines.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Quote ">>
These old cars are a constant problem aren't they. It is really hard sometimes to figure out what is wrong
based on what the customer is telling you. You have to read between the lines."
_______________
No, just plain old cars and problems DO NOT have to go hand and hand if all is taken care of many can go ages longer and be trouble free and new ones be a PITA right away?


This particular issue AS I READ BETWEEN THE LINES like you said is too many cooks in this kitchen making up thoughts of what is doing what and when. That would mess up any repair order. The customer needs to explain the issue as best they can and it's still interpreted as to what was really meant or misunderstood.


Routine work you just say time for this or that and forget it.


Anything to do with noises, odors and throw in different people noticed what this is left to that tech to really find it. He/she could have bullshitted you into tons more and nobody here would support that.


You were told brakes at the wheels looked fine which is inconsistent with real dragging brakes so there's a communication issue from the get go.


Sometimes with odd behavior of whatever ask the tech to test drive it when it's well known it would duplicate the complaint.


However a shop is set up when something isn't clear ask to speak and show the person who will get the job can save tons of honest confusion and errors.


I'll suggest more that you should NOT tell a shop what to replace or fix but rather what the problem is. Any real tech should take it from there. Ask for a call/notice if more found than you can deal with at that time if so or estimate when it's not known till checked out,


Tom

Response From Tom Greenleaf

I'll close this out for now. YOU may ask it to be re opened by any moderator just refer to the thread please.


Ah - Perhaps you need to talk with your son what dragging means when you are talking about brakes. To most people techs or not that is a feeling like you are hitting or applying the brakes (pushing on brake pedal) when you are NOT!


Hope it's all set,


Tom

Response From jackx

I agree. Believe me next time my son tells me what the symptoms are I will keep that to myself
until I check it out myself. I figured at the time that he and the inspection tech would have had
a better grasp on what the symptoms were. I was wrong. Heck he's still saying they were dragging.

You can close this one I guess. Its fixed. Thanks for the help.

Response From Tom Greenleaf


It's totally plausible and a bit rare that somehow master can't allow fluid back but it does have to retract to home position for it to do so either pushrod of booster or a failure of master (none except one brand new flawed one) did that and was fine cold like that.


I'm only a bit surprised that brakes at the wheels are still fine but wasn't looking or feeling this problem either. Sounds like a fair diagnosis to me.


The clue is when a pedal doesn't have ANY freeplay or so little it's not going to release pressure back when you take your foot off the brake and as it gets hotter just gets worse.


Good luck that it's 100% fixed and done with. That would be very unusual to me short of contaminated brake fluid swelling up all rubber parts and tech should have noted a swollen rubber cap seal if so at least IMO. Let him/her do their thing,


T

Response From Hammer Time

If you have brakes that are dragging they are going to continue to build up heat as you drive and eventually they will boil the brake fluid and you will lose brakes. You definitely need to get that inspected ASAP.
By that time you will have ruined the rotor also.

1987 Ford f150 slave clutch problem

Showing 2 out of 33 Posts | Show 31 Hidden Posts
Question From gdtractor on 1987 Ford f150 slave clutch problem

My old 1987 Ford F-150 manual transmission 4x4 - has set out a lot -- and the linkage to the slave drive broke and it would not go out of gear. I fixed the linkage lever that runs to the slave drive cylinder because it broke in two.

I drove it for a while like that .. then it sat for a month or two again and Now the clutch won't engage . if I rev it -- it will start to move. How do I know if the clutch is out or can I adjust the the slave drive linkage again because it could have "slipped" out of place -- because I had to weld it.

not sure the clutch is fully disengaging ..
again the truck has set a lot for about 3 years altogether.

also where do I check to see if the fluid is okay for the clutch drive cylinder

what do you suspect?

thanks much

Gary

(Just removed hyperlink not intended by poster, TG)

Response From Tom Greenleaf Top Rated Answer

Hmmm? Not quite sure what physically broke that could be welded and allow you to drive it for a while but no matter.

Right now it seems as though the clutch is ALWAYS engaged making it near impossible to get into gear while engine is running - right? If started it would probably take off on you if engaged and clutch was good itself.

This type linkage needs to be bled out of air and parts replaced that leak and whatever it was the needed welding checked to see if that repair is working.

There should be a reservoir - frequently near the brake's master cylinder that usually uses DOT 3 brake fluid and should have a line indicating the "full" mark. Some if low will begin to behave if just filled and pumped a few times but finding it low indicates a problem to be fixed.

It's really NOT good to force shift this when linkage isn't disengaging the clutch. Doing to is really not so hard on the clutch but is hard on the transmission and to be avoided.

Bleeding air out of master/slave clutch linkages can be tricky. If this shifts well now without engine running it would be a good idea to get help if this is confusing you now and possibly prevent damage it may not have yet,

T

Response From gdtractor

Tom -- thanks so much for your answer ---

I made some wrong statesments in my post ---

actually it shifts very well and the truck goes in and out of every gear very well but will not move when in gear -- however if I rev the engine - it will start to move -- I haven't moved it because I didn't know if it would hurt something ..

the piece of linkage that I had to weld is the small bolt like piece under the dash that the clutch pedal runs thru the firewall to the slave cylinder ....

hope this gives you a better picture of the problem ..
I will have to check the level of the fluid in the cylinder ..

thx much
Gary

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Ok: Somewhere between your typing and my eyesight to read we'll get this

IF - you can put this in gear and the truck holds the vehicle on a slope for example then I would say the clutch itself is ok to move the truck when running. If you are sure you are in gear and release the clutch with little effect to move the truck than I'm blaming the clutch itself as burned out.

Linkage for the clutch is to release it. The "HOME" of a clutch is engaged unless somehow some kind of linkage mess up is preventing from returning to "engaged" .. This is to say that if a vehicle had no linkage, no fluid and just a good clutch it would be able to move. Now - stopping and changing gears would be a real problem.

Note: If or when linkage adjustment which is primarily how much free area is at the top of pedal travel is wrong than a clutch can "ride" itself and wear out prematurely.

Think of the clutch as just means to disconnect the engine from the drivetrain at the push of the clutch pedal which is really it's whole job - the linkage is there to allow it to do that at the right spot for the driver,

T

Response From gdtractor

oooh!.. I am afraid you have the facts straight ...

and I don't even know where to BEGIN when it comes to "tending" to the clutch !!

this is a "wood-hauler" .. and I like the truck .. just haven't been able to use it much !!

Thanks for the info -- you have been VERY helpful !!

I have a friend that does "shade tree" jobs from his garage .. he might just help out ..

Gary

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Hey - a clutch on a 2wd F-150 isn't all that hard or expensive to diy! If you're up for it with a helper (couple spots where strength counts - trans is heavy) and some tools I'll help you get thru that one,

T

Response From gdtractor

Tom -- I thought I sent the last post to you but sent it to myself ..

anyway .. I thought if it took little to get the ranger running I wood have it to get wood until I could get the other larger truck fixed ..

crazy huh?

Gary

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

Hope it's okay if I jump in here? Every type of vehicle have their own little idiosyncrasies(mine is that I can't spell that word). Fords are notorious for ignition control modules and distributor pick-up coils going bad, causing the symptom you describe. Usually, they'll have to sit and cool for a bit before restarting. You may want to check the pickup coil before 'just replacing' it as there are other reasons an engine can die. Just a thought.

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

Thanks, Tom. Didn't want to step on anyone's toes. The 4X4's are a job. We do quite a few. Transfer case, we usually seperate from the trans. One, it is hard to 'balance' on the trans. jack if still attached to the trans., Two, VERY HEAVY as a one piece unit. Other than that, no real difference. Once you've done a clutch, they're all the same. Well, in general. LOL. Just did one on a VW GTI. Have no idea why I took it in? We, normally, don't work on Euros', but, got it done. Never again! Had a weak moment, I guess?

Response From Tom Greenleaf

gdtractor: One model please per thread - it's too confusing and archived stuff will be worthless with two different models on same thread.

Loren: Please do jump in! That goes for anyone with ideas on these things.

Clutch on F-150. Done a bunch but just don't recall any that were 4X4 so don't know exactly what obsticles if any await.
The biggest deal with a clutch job is having clearance to remove transmission and the large RWD layouts of trucks make for plenty of room in general. Weight of trans must be supported from when last bolt is loosened to remove it till first one is tightened when installing or the weight can allow it to sag bending the clutch disc - that's the only time where some help is needed - either another person or some awesome equipment that holds stuff in place.

Fords of the era in general: Ign modules, pick up coils and fuel pump relays used to be 99% of the problems when they would just quit running. I litterally carry a whole spare dist in my trunk for these and a universal spare relay!

Response From Tom Greenleaf


There's no "toe stepping" on me Loren. I simply haven't run across an F series truck 4X4 that wasn't also an automatic! Tons of "Three on the tree" standards.

By your description it sounds like wresling weight will be an issue for the 4X4 and could be a stopper for many and that's good to know,

T

Response From gdtractor

Tom
I checked the level of the fluid in the slave drive master cyl. and it is full ... but when pushing the clutch when it is running .. it doesn't sound like ANYTHING is moving ....
thought I would just update you since you have given me so much advice ...

is there another mechanism on the tranny/clutch housing that could be bad?

thx

Sorry for all the questions --

Gary

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

Gary; Just went back are re-read the posts; Like Tom said, sounds like a lack of clutch engagement. If you can let out the clutch pedal, with the engine running, and the transmission in gear, and the truck wants to move but won't....(If this is not the scenario, let me know):
I'm going to try and cover the bases, here, so bare with me.
1) The hydraulic system (master cyl. and slave cyl) operate the throw-out fork which, in turn, presses on the throw-out bearing to release the clutch. No real difference than the old type that used linkage. The reason for the hydraulics is that it requires less foot/leg pressure to operate the clutch. Sooooooo, if this is what is happening, I would have to say that it is a mechanical problem in the clutch, itself. Not a hydraulic issue.
2) When the throw-out fork pushes the throw-out bearing, the bearing then presses against the 'fingers' on the pressure plate, disengaging it from the clutch disc. There are only a couple of scenarios that I can bring to mind. First, being the clutch disc is just plain worn out; Or, something like a piece of 'something' has fallen into the area behind the 'fingers' of the pressure plate keeping it from locking up with the disc. Either way, trans removal will be required.
With that said; If you start the engine, push in the clutch pedal, and can't get it into first or reverse without grinding...Still could be a hydraulic or debris problem assuming that you welded the pedal assembly in the correct position.

Response From gdtractor

.. that's pretty much the scenario -- only thing is now I can put it in gear ... and with the engine running without my foot on the clutch .. I can easily shift to any gear including reverse .. NOTHING .... no grinding -- no movement .. nothing ..



Gary

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

Well, Gary, it's time to drop the trans. Sorry. It's a little more work, but makes the job much easier if you drop the transfer case seperately. Both the transfer case and the transmission are quite heavy. If you have a floor jack, you can use it to lower each piece, the use it to raise the pieces during reinstallation. I think you'll find the clutch disc grenaded. Be sure to have the flywheel resurfaced and replace the slave while you've got it torn down. Pretty easy one day job in your driveway. If you need any instructions during the process, feel free to ask.

Response From gdtractor

thanks Loren .. !!

going to have to "getter done" ....

thanks again you guys -- for your help ..

GED

Response From txcwright

I have the exact same problem with my '88. I have the clutch kit (clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bearing and pilot tool). I started removing the transmission today, but I can't figure out how to disconnect the hydraulic line that connects to the slave cylinder from the side of the transmission. Anyone know how to do this? Or, is there a way to remove the transmission without disconnecting the hydraulic line? I have changed F100/F150 clutches in the past, but all had mechanical linkages. Any help with this would be appreciated.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Just like a brake the air must be known bled out or just full at master cylinder means little. There could be other issues that disable it from disengaging clutch to shift and drive as normal. There's whatever the slave mounts to, a pushrod there to a fork that pushes on the throwout bearing that releases the pre-tensioned pressure plate which is doing the real grabbing force if and only if clutch is good enough to have any friction.

You should be able to see something move down at slave cylinder with a helper pushing on clutch pedal. Some are out of sight and I can't recall this one in particular,

T

Response From gdtractor

Tom and Loren ..

again .. I hate to "carry on" about this .. but as you mentioned I need a "helper" to push the clutch and me to watch ..

and YES the other day when I pushed in the clutch -- the truck would move when I reved the engine ..
now -- when I push the clutch -- it goes in all the gears easily -- but it doesn't seem like anything is happening at all .... goes into gear but no rubbing sound - NODA !! that is what has got me wondering ..

I will -- before I write again .. get someone to help me and watch the bottom to see what is going on with the lever .. etc ..

Thanks again ..

Gary

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

I guess I'm not clear on what the problem was, originally. If I understand correctly; If you start the engine, push in the clutch, you can get it into gear, but the truck won't move unless you rev the engine? Is this correct? If so, the problem is in the clutch, itself. Could be a disc or pressure plate problem.
On the other hand, with the engine running, push in the clutch, and can't get it into gear without grinding, then it is a clutch release problem. If this is correct, have someone push in the clutch pedal while you are watching the slave cylinder. You should be able to watch the piston push out against the throw-out fork. If this is happening, then you still may have a disc problem. Could be that one of the springs in the disc have fallen out and wedged between the pressure plate and the disc, disallowing enough throw. Try and be as specific as you can when answering. Thanks.

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

Not surprised. Seems like the area of the US makes a big difference. When I started, in Los Angeles area, I had never worked on a 3/4 ton or a 4x4. In the NW, we see a lot of manual trans./4X4 vehicles. As common as Jose Cuervo. In our travels, I notice that a lot. Small towns in AK have more planes than cars. Funny. Varies from climate to climate. And, you guys, back east have much harder winters than us. Seems that there'd be MORE 4X4s than here? Three on the tree? VERY RARE!

Response From gdtractor

I obviously have not seen too many .. but never seen a "three on the tree" truck in years !!

GED

Response From gdtractor

I haven't had a chance to do anything with the "clutch truck" because it has started snowing here and trying to get wood in on extra time .. we burn wood totally at our house ..

but anxious to check and see if the slave cylinder has any fluid or enough in it ..

Gary

Response From gdtractor

well -- guys... I am not sure what I will do immediately with the 4x4 F150 but I think I will try and fix the Ranger so I can move some firewood from the woods. then I will try and take care of the F150. It has gotten quite cold here in Michigan .. so that will slow me down a little .. :)

Have a great week ..

Gary

Response From gdtractor

Guys .. can I put a 12 volt "charge" -- to the distributor wire to test the coil ?

or that .. NOT GOOD >.

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

The electronic ignition system that you have doesn't use a "condensor". The condensor that you see is more than likely for RFI. The pickup coil is built into the distributor. Fords do not have "user friendly" distributors and is a lot easier and cheaper in the long run to replace the distributor as a unit than to pay someone to replace the pickup coil. The older GMs were a piece of cake to replace the pickup coil. However, I'd want to do some more diagnosing before dropping in another distributor.

Response From gdtractor

thx so much for the input ..

the "pickup coil" .. is that what I would call the coil that is on top of the engine and I believe the condenser is located next to it .. ? is a pickup coil different than a regular coil?

and by the way -- the truck won't start at all now ..

again .. thx so much for your help ..

Gary

Response From gdtractor

thx .. I am not sure where to start .. but perhaps taking the coil off and letting AutoZone check it ..

again thx

Gary

Response From gdtractor

Ford clutch problem: thanks for info.

Ford with NO Start prob: where is the fuel pump relay please but wouldn't the "no spark" thing be indicitive of the coil?

Note: sorry for running two threads here .. { i have too much junk I guess}
I have a Chevy 2006 but hate sctratch it up hauling wood -- (and yes I have TOO MANY trucks).

GED

Response From gdtractor

Tom
i feel like this is taking advantage of you but here goes ..
I bought a 1991 Ford Ranger at an auction for $120 , anyway -- not the best looker but RAN Awesome!!

just recently -- it would run for a while then quit running --- it would stall sometimes but if I pulled the side of the road and let it coast -- pop the clutch it would start running again ..

the guys at AutoZone said it was the "ignition module" up by the radiator -- so I replaced it ..
still does it. Now it will not start at all ---

I tried to check the coil and plug wire - NOTHING .. no fire .. and I believe it is getting gas okay - it is a fuel injected unit ..

I have had it for 3 years -- NEVER failed to start and run --- but i did mess with the coil and condensor before putitng on the module .. and thought I got everything back okay ..

what would it be if it is not the ignition module -- the coil or condenser or is there a fuse somewhere?

thnks AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary

Response From gdtractor

.. it is a 4x4 -- harder?

thx much

Gary

Response From gdtractor

okay -- I am "redneck" of "country bunkin'" or something .. here is the truck I got it was all rusted out and was gray and red .. and believe it or not for a 4x4 I wanted to make "fender skirts" for it .. now you know -- why I am NO mechanic!! :)

Response From gdtractor

let me try the attachment again .. hmmmm ..

humm again .. don't see the attachment but here goes ..

http://autoforums.carjunky.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=269;

(From Tom - there you go - you don't have to open an attachment now - nice truck!)

2000 Ford F150

Showing 2 out of 9 Posts | Show 7 Hidden Posts
Question From julianns85 on 2000 Ford F150

My friend and I are working on his 2000 Ford F150 manual transmission. He hit a motorcycle helmet and damaged his oil tank. After much trouble trying to get it out, we lowered the tranny. Since we had it lowered we decided to replace the clutch as well. We had a lot of trouble getting the tranny back in but finally did. The day after it was all together, the only problem was a couple of censors. Now about 3 days later, the truck will not shift into reverse. We drained the clutch, but it didn't work. Since we did all this we are trying to avoid taking it to a shop. Can anyone help?!?!?!?!?

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

I'm really hoping that a head wasn't attached to the helmet?
Pretty sure that it is a hydraulic clutch in the Ford. Some can be a real pain to bleed. Most of the Ford clutch kits come with a new slave cylinder. Hopefully, yours did. Bleed the master cylinder, first. Then, move to the slave, and bleed it. Sounds like air in the system, to me.

Response From julianns85

Hey. Thanks for the reply. That was my girlfriend trying to write what actually happened (without my consent :) LOL ). BTW There was no head attached, thank god. Anyway, to be more specific, it's the V6 model and we didn't "drain the clutch", lol, we bled the crap out of it though. There was loads of air coming out from beginning to end. I still don't think I got all of the air out. I figure the air in it is causing it to shift poor and even more so not at all in reverse. I was thinking it needs a slave. Does that sound about right? I probably used over a quart of brake fluid bleeding it and air was still coming out it came in spurts. Some pumps it had none then the next it had almost all air coming out. So I finally gave up and said I think he needs a slave. I will try bleeding the master first then the slave but I'm pretty sure they're not connected on this one, and the brake pedal is fine. Oh, also, we never even opened the lines when we did all of this work. The hydraulic clutch line was the only thing we left attached to the tranny when we
"removed" it. We actually just backed it up far enough to do the oil pan, and clutch( disc, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, pilot bearing, and flywheel).

Oh, another thing she didn't mention is that it worked fine for the first day, all gears and everything, the next day was when reverse stopped working. Also, as far as the "sensors" she was talking about, we accidentally broke the cylinder head temp sensor somehow (probably when we were using the prybar to remove the trans)........THANK YOU! Please wbs.

Response From Loren Champlain Sr Top Rated Answer

The hydraulic clutch has it's own master cylinder (seperate from the brake master cylinder). When you disconnected the hydraulic line from the trans (slave cylinder), the master cylinder probably drained until it was empty. Just like a brake master cyl., the clutch master has been 'pushed' in the same distance over a number of years. Beyond that point, sediment will build up. If you are not very careful during bleeding, and push the clutch in further than that point, you can rupture the cup on the piston inside the master, due to the buildup of debris/sediment. If this happens, the master will no longer be able to hold pressure, and sometimes, allow it to 'suck' air in from the back. I'm not saying this is what's happened, but it is possible. The slave cylinder should always be replaced when doing a hydraulic clutch. The renewed force of the new pressure plate is very often more than the old slave can handle. But....before you start replacing stuff, bleed the clutch master cylinder first. Depending on it's angle when mounted to the firewall, you may have to take it off and bench bleed it, then remount it, and continue bleeding the slave. Once the master is bled, I prefer to gravity bleed the slave so as to reduce the possibility of damaging the master. Also, depending on the position of the bleeder on the slave, that can be a chore. I'll have to check, but isn't the slave inside the bell housing on this one?

Response From julianns85

OK! Thanks for the reply. I've already done that, that was the first thing I did, kind of. I just didn't know that's what it was called(slave master). I thought that was the slave!(the one on the firewall). I guess the only thing I was bleeding was the slave, and yes it is inside the bell housing, but the bleeder sticks out enough to put a wrench on it. So, since all the air that I was getting was coming from that bleeder, on the slave, does that mean more than likely that the slave master is bad? Or the slave itself? Either way, I will start with that tomorrow and let you know. I'll bleed it from the slave master, then gravity bleed it from the slave itself. Correct? The thing I'm most unsure about is 1: if any of this would cause only reverse not to go in gear, which is the whole problem; and 2: if I cannot stop getting air then which one is bad? the slave master or the slave?............Please wbs.....thanks.

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

Just to be perfectly clear, as old Tricky Dick Nixon would say; Oh, and he wasn't a crook, either. The unit on the firewall is the master cylinder. The unit in the bell housing is the slave cylinder. Yes, do it in that order. The master cylinder, first, then the slave. Be sure to keep the master cylinder full while you are bleeding the slave.
If you can get it into the other gears, you must be getting close. Reverse is a very low gear. If you can't get the clutch to release completely, the input shaft of the transmission won't slow enough to get it into that gear.
I'm really surprised that your clutch kit didn't come with a new slave cylinder. That's gonna suck if you have to pull it all back out to replace that sucker. But, first things, first. If it comes to it, I'd recommend replacing the master cylinder, first. They are relatively inexpensive and are quite simple to replace. You might stick your head up under the dash. You'll see the pushrod that goes from the clutch pedal, into the back of the master cylinder. There will be a rubber boot on the back of the master that the pushrod goes through. Pull the rubber back and see if there is any moisture. If there is, the master needs to be replaced, regardless.

Response From julianns85

OK! Thanks...will do that and let you know what happens.....btw....let's say i do all that bleeding and it still doesn't go into reverse....do you think I could just reach through the peephole in the bell housing with a prybar and try prying back to see if that's even the problem?, or just go ahead and replace the slave?

Response From Loren Champlain Sr

I've never tried it before, but if you can somehow move the throwout bearing far enough to disengage the clutch, and it works, then you know that the problem is hydraulic. It won't tell you if it's the slave or master. As said before, I'd replace the master first. To replace the slave, you'll be pulling the trans. But, I wouldn't do either until you are darned sure that all of the air is out of the system. What you are lacking, assuming this isn't a transmission or pilot bushing problem, is throwout fork throw (amount of travel in the fork). Uh, that reminds me. You did replace the pilot bushing/bearing, right?

Response From Tom Greenleaf

J - reverse is a different bird. Try shifting it into reverse without the engine running - it should go right in. It may not because clutch isn't disengaging and reverse might grind or difficult vs any forward gear. I didn't think any reverse gears were synchro so would grind if clutch doesn't completely disengage engine. Does this also have that feature where you can't remove the keys without this being in reverse?

It still has a master and or slave issue going on with all that bleeding and no results yet IMO,

T