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2005 Envoy 4.2 Oil Pressure Low (DIC)

Showing 4 out of 25 Posts | Show 21 Hidden Posts
Question From MarineGrunt on 2005 Envoy 4.2 Oil Pressure Low (DIC)

2005 GMC Envoy XL 4.2 4WD

I just changed the thermostat. Got it all back together and let it warm up to get the coolant to the proper level. Not the dic is saying that the oil pressure is low and to shut down the engine. The oil pressure gauge reads zero.

I removed the alternator in order to make it easier to get to the thermostat. Are there any wires or harnesses I could have bumped or pinched that could relate to this? The alternator and thermostat are over by the under hood fuse box so I guess a wire could be a possibility. If not, is there a way to test the oil pressure sender or the stepper motor?

I guess I should have added that the oil was changed about 500 miles ago and is at the proper level.


Response From Hammer Time

MG, have you found the oil pressure sender?

Response From MarineGrunt

After posting and waiting for replies I sprayed down some of the coolant that was around the engine from the t stat replacement and dried it with air just to clean everything up. I started it back up and everything is fine. Gauge is reading normal and no more warning on the dic.
On alldata there's an oil pressure sensor that's located by the filter. It also lists an oil pressure sender but doesn't have any diagrams or repair information. It does list a part number and price though. Not sure what the deal is there.
If the stepper motor is bad would that cause the dic to warn you or is both the stepper motor and the dic sent information via the sender or sensor? I've heard that stepper motors are a known problem but don't know if that would trigger the dic to give a warning. I wouldn't think it would so if it happens again would it likely be the sensor?

Response From MarineGrunt

I did find the sender HT. It's right above the oil filter. There wouldn't be another one, would there?

Finally had time to dig in deeper. I checked pressure with a gauge. At idle it reads about 16 psi. At around 1200 rpm's I'm getting about 35 psi. Alldata says 12 psi minimum at 1200 rpm's. Obviously it isn't low but what is the ideal psi? What is considered too high? I took the above readings when the engine was at normal operating temps. When I first started the engine, and it was cold, pressure was 76 psi. It was sitting in my garage overnight and all day so the engine was freezing cold at start up. I guess non of that matters since the reading is taken at normal operating temp.

There is a little oil seepage that looks to be running down the filter. The oil sender is right above the filter. When I took the electrical connector off it looked like there was some oil inside the sender. I don't think the filter is leaking but rather the sender. I guess with oil inside the electrical connector it has to be.

I guess I mainly want to know how the readings look. I've never had to check oil pressure so just wondering if a reading can be too high.


Response From Hammer Time

Those pressures sound fine MG. I'd probably throw a new sender at it and see what happens.

Response From MarineGrunt

It was sitting in my garage overnight and all day so the engine was freezing cold at start up.

Not that it matters but that should've said the engine WASN'T freezing cold.

Since I now know engine oil pressure is good I went ahead and ordered an AC Delco sender online. It's cheaper online than from the local parts stores.

Thanks for the help. I'll post the results after I get it, install it, and drive it for a few days to make sure the problem is solved.

Response From Hammer Time

Hey, you happy about your new coach?

Response From MarineGrunt

You know, I am happy with their choice. Fox has never been that coach that I really like but he isn't one I don't like. You know what I mean. There are those coaches you can't stand. Normally the Bears pick up some guy that has never been a head coach or even in the NFL because they're too cheap. Fox has quite a bit of experience and has been around the league for a long time. Really, the Bears should've been better than what they were. If you look at their receivers, Forte, and even Cutler they should've won more games than they did. Look how Cutler did in Denver. There's no reason he can't play the same in Chicago. I think they just need to find an offense that suits him. Hopefully Fox can get the D back on track and help Cutler pull his head out of his backside. Cutler's main problem is his arrogant attitude. I can't stand him for that. I say give Fox a couple years. If he doesn't perform it's time to bring Ditka back! Then again, Fox has a better when % than Ditka. I just grew up with Ditka as coach so I've always liked him. He did awful with the Saints though.

Response From Hammer Time

Isn't Fox the guy that chased Cutler out of Denver?

Response From Double J

No, that was Josh Mcdaniels

Hopefully he can come here and chase him out of town again...

Response From Double J

Matter of fact, He'd look better in a Dolphins uniform.

Response From MarineGrunt

Hopefully he can come here and chase him out of town again...

No kidding. I don't know why they even resigned him. Heck, I'd rather go back to getting a new starter every year or two like usual. As many starting QB's as we've had you would think we'd eventually run across a good one. Even if they did they'd probably end up trading him for like a 4th round draft pick though. I know we've had some okay QB's but have we ever had a great QB? If so it was before my time.

I like Double J's idea. Let's put him in a Dolphin's uniform. We can then bug HT's house on Sundays so we can listen to him cuss and throw chairs around the place.

Response From Double J

Yeah, we've had so so QB's at best. McMahon was average but he was such a character that people think he was great.
He won because of the defense .
The only one that was close to any good was Sid Luckman.
As Bears fans , all we have to hang our hats on are the 85 Bears.Thank God for them..
Halas would have a fit if he came back and saw what they've done to this team.

I would love to see Ditka in his hey day have Cutler on his team, He would beat the shit out of him.

I like Double J's idea. Let's put him in a Dolphin's uniform. We can then bug HT's house on Sundays so we can listen to him cuss and throw chairs around the place.
Who, mild mannered Desi ?....LOL...
That would be worth the price of admission.

Response From Hammer Time

My neighbors have no doubt who my team is. Remember, around here the doors and windows are usually open in the winter.

Response From MarineGrunt

How did I know we were going to get that warm weather rubbed in our face....There's just no comeback for that one. The only thing I can hold onto is that even if I have 0 degree weather here I usually have 10+ degrees on Double J. Maybe more if the wind is whipping off of lake Michigan.

Response From Double J

How did I know we were going to get that warm weather rubbed in our face....There's just no comeback for that one. The only thing I can hold onto is that even if I have 0 degree weather here I usually have 10+ degrees on Double J. Maybe more if the wind is whipping off of lake Michigan.
Oh Yeah, you knew that was coming......LOL
Around here, you better not leave anything open, doors,windows, hell not even your fly.....they'll steal your eyeballs and maybe your balls

Response From Discretesignals

Hey, nothing like going camping at Fort Desoto and leaving your window down on your station wagon that was full of food. Then coming out the next morning to find the raccoons had a party inside along with raccoon crap everywhere, including the wiper cowling.

Response From Tom Greenleaf Top Rated Answer

LOL, MG - Of course they must brag that they can leave doors and windows open for Winter because they don't want to mention the whole rest of the year they are cowering for their life from man eating bugs, humidity that you can cut so take a swim and get stung or bitten by some newfangled protected species of something that could eat thru a space shuttle's heat tiles.

Cold for a few months doesn't sound so bad sometimes. Just kidding all around, Tom

Response From Hammer Time

Tom, you should get some help for the phobia you have about tropical life. I'm not bothered with any of those things. I saw more mosquitos up north than I see here, but them I don't hang out in the bushes at night.

Response From Double J

they are cowering for their life from man eating bugs

I remember years ago my folks went down to Sanibel
The first day there there were eaten alive by the NoSeeUm bugs / sand flies......
Ruined their trip..nobody had warned them about those things so they didn't know to use anything to prevent that.

Response From Hammer Time

Well, I do have to put the heat on sometimes when it drops into the low sixties during the day.

Response From Hammer Time

No, thank you

Response From Tom Greenleaf

Oil inside plug to sensor! Send that one to the circular file.
76PSI oil pressure? Was that just a split second spike or what? It shouldn't be able to go and stay that high no matter what?


Response From Tom Greenleaf

I am NOT coming up with credible info - sorry. I think this should be a three wire plug in that fits many GM vehicles. Wire colors should be a black w #s on it? beige one, and a light blue.
(edit - pic didn't show but this was where I looked, )

Dang pic better show^^^^

Pigtail in stock at NAPA and Autosnooze's site shows a screw in (would expect that) but very old type gauge with a dome then a plug that wouldn't fit so screw that.

This just can't be NO oil pressure without obvious problems right now so it must have wires where you were working.
Guess I'd go back and look with alternator back off if anything got squished? Otherwise left to wild guessing for location, down rear under but visible by intake manifold or near oil filter? No clue why info is so lousy on this? Tom

Response From Tom Greenleaf

I didn't find location for the switch/sender but if really ZERO you know it would sound it and seize in no time so it must be wrong, disconnected or pinched as you suspect. Where wires are run I'll never know for sure but would check pressure manually at least to verify it's fine until you find where it's broken and doubt switch itself if just happened with the recent work.

Stay warm buddy! Tom

Should I DIY

Showing 2 out of 19 Posts | Show 17 Hidden Posts
Question From 0xletsdothis on Should I DIY

Hello everyone, I bet you see a million of these posts so I apologize in advance! Lets start out with the essentials -

2009 Chevy Impala
3.5 L V6 OHV if i'm not mistaken.
Approx 120k~ miles, mostly highway (commuter car).
Bought slightly used, no issues until now, bought at roughly 30,000 miles.

The short and skinny of my post is, my car has developed a clicking noise. Through plentiful googling it seems likely to be something to do with the valves. Build up, damage, who knows. It was a slight click that wasn't always there for a few months. Real subtle, barely noticeable. I always kind of attributed it to the weather getting cooler and didn't think much of it. The performance hasn't really been affected and the car has sounded fine through and through, still driving well! Well when I open my door today, the clicking during idle is much louder and pronounced. I couldn't hear it while driving, but I heard it when I stopped into idle. Was fairly quiet inside the car but more pronounced when you opened the door obviously. So in summation, the clicking got a fair bit louder. It will click while idle, and then raise with the acceleration, but interestingly it seems to disappear after about 3000-4000 RPMs.

Anywho, I am PRAYING that there is no mechanical damage and something is just sticking or something to that effect. I feel I should address this now before it really bites me. The caveat, I am deeeaaaaaad broke. Like in the red, no credit to speak of whatsoever. So taking it to a shop is something i'm not sure I could do in the near future. Now i'm a technically inclined person and have done some work on small engines in the past, but nothing near the caliber of a car engine.

I would like to clean the valves out. I've never torn into a car engine before. Is this something that is just so far out of the knowledge of a common folk to even attempt, or is this something with enough research, a few select tools and some elbow grease+time I could do? I've done lots of googling and people seem to be doing it just fine... I really would like to try, but I don't want to start taking parts off and screw something up. I have lots of research to do...

I've read it can have something to do with oil pressure and the cold. Should I perhaps try replacing the filter again, getting in some fresh oil and running some sort of fuel additive through the car? I read about one that was some sort of Techron product that is supposed to clean all sort of things. Suggestions? It was noticeabley colder this morning than it has been the past few days so I wonder if perhaps oil pressure is something to do with this? What other filters could there be that I could replace? What about the oil pump? Is this something I should be targeting instead, can this be DIY'd easily? I have had no check engine lights or oil pressure lights come on.

Thoughts, ideas, recommendations? If messing with the oil system or getting at my valves/headers is going to be too much work for a DIY project just let me know. I'm not intimidated, but I want to be realistic and know what to expect. If I have to drop the grand it's going to take me months to save that up, which in the mean time will mean accelerated failure for my only car. I would appreciate some guidance. Thank you so much for your insights :)

Response From MarineGrunt

I'm a diy guy too. I have always worked on my own vehicles. My last few projects this forum has been a lifesaver. My most recent project was rebuilding transmission in my wife's old minivan. I've swapped out transmissions before but have never completely tore one apart. I was where you are at now before I decided to go for it. I kind of figured I could possibly do it, but being that I've never seen inside of one, I was intimidated. I'm glad I did.

I did plenty of research and asked plenty of questions beforehand. I also ordered a rebuild and update manual on the 4t65e which is the transmission I rebuilt. I took my time, took notes, asked plenty of questions, and took hundreds of pictures to look back on if I got stuck.

Earlier this year I had to replace the intake gasket on the van so took apart a lot of the engine. I didn't think it was that hard of a project. I did one in a grand am before that so it wasn't my first time.

I guess what I'm getting at is if you do your research, take plenty of pictures, label the bolts and parts and put the in baggies, and take your time, it may be something you can do. It really comes down to how much work you have done in the past. The thing is, if you want to work on your own vehicles, you have to start somewhere. No one that doesn't know you personally can't really say if you can do it or not. That has to be something that you decide. I can tell you this, if you decide to go for it, stick around this forum. Hammer Time, Disgretesignals, Nick, Tom, Sidom, Way2old, and the other mechanics will bend over backwards to help. They know their stuff so just do as they say. They will never veer you wrong. I'll help if I can but these guys know a million times more than me.

I might still have some pictures of when I did the intake on the van. It has the 3.4 so it's probably somewhat similar to yours. If you'd like me to post a few so you'll know a little of what you'll be dealing with I can. That is if I still have them. I'm sure there are going to be some new tools you'll need to pick up. I have a pretty decent selection of tools but I still run across times where I need something I don't have. That's just part of doing it yourself. The good thing is, you save money plus you end up getting some new tools out of each job. Plus, the wife can't say anything about spending money on them.

Just do your research. If you feel like you're up to it, go for it. I think if you have some mechanical aptitude and a good plan in place, you'll be okay. I'll try and think of any certain tools I needed for the intake and let you know. I do remember I had to buy a set of metric crows feet. I think I only needed the 10mm though. A torque wrench is a must. A set of gear wrenches saved me in some tight places although everything on that van was tight. I'll let you know what else when I think about it.

Maybe some of the mechanics will chime in.

Best of luck.

Response From 0xletsdothis

Thanks a million for the reply Marine Grunt. Pictures would be a great help! From what I can tell its an OHV so I should, in theory, just be able to get at the valves? I wouldn't need to pull the engine out of the car. I see people talk about cleaning the piston heads and whatnot as well and rotating each piston to top stroke, i'm not sure how I would crank the shaft to get the pistons into the correct position, same for the valves to. The crankshaft connects to the camshaft which controls the lifter to the valves, right? It's been awhile since engine class! I do have a little bit of experience working on engines, I am pretty resourceful too. It would really just be a matter of getting it done over a weekend or so, because I can't go without my car for long.

Anywho, those pictures would be great, or any reference material. It'd be good to get a general idea of what you would be taking apart, what I should be expecting to see, what's normal, what's not. It would help give me some scope to the project. Plus especially what tools are going to be handy. If I didn't have to get up for work in 5 hours i'd do some more research into how to get at the valves and all that good stuff. Sorry if my terminology is off!

Again thanks much for the reply, I definitely want to do LOTS of research. I think I would feel comfortable enough to do it if I educated myself enough.

I do alot of IT work for a living so I am EXTREMELY used to doing research and making things work, albeit on more white collar nerdier things, but the approach to the work is similar.

So I guess if anyone thinks otherwise, i'd like to start gathering information on how to approach this whole project. Are there any good websites that would have good information on tear downs and repairs, perhaps engine... schematics? Pretty sure my owner manual has some of that stuff, i'll have to go dig that out tomorrow and get reading.

Thanks a million for the reply Marine!

Response From MarineGrunt

The owner's manual won't give you any info about what you're trying to accomplish. If it says anything about maintenance it will just be basic stuff. One thing I'd highly recommend is going to alldatadiy and buying a subscription to your vehicle. I think it's around $16.95 for one year of access or $29.95 for 3 years. It will give you step by step directions with some diagrams of anything you'll ever need to do to your car. I have a subscription to each one of our vehicles. I've been told that the info is exactly the same info that mechanics use. The only difference is they have to pay thousands for it because it gives them access to every make and model. Definitely get it and than take a look at what you're going to be doing.

In order to rotate the pistons all you have to do is turn the crankshaft. You can do this by putting a wrench and socket on the harmonic balancer bolt. That will turn the crankshaft, which in turn, will rotate the pistons. You'll see what I mean once you get to that point.

If I still have the pictures I won't have pictures of everything you'll be doing. When doing an intake you don't have to tear into the engine quite as far as you're going. The engine part isn't all that bad. It's removing everything else to get there. As a diy guy, I feel the worse part is remembering where everything goes and what bolts go where. That's where a digital camera and the baggie labeling system comes in handy. Take a million pictures along the way. I can't tell you how many times that has saved me. There are times I have taken 10 pictures of the same thing just at different angles. Another thing that helps is when you get to the push rods, valves, certain bolts, etc, and by getting a box, drawing a diagram of the part or engine, poking holes where need be, and placing the parts in the holes. That way you get them back I the proper location. Some of the push rods are different lengths so it's necessary to get them back in the proper location.

Take a look at the alldatadiy and let us know what you think about the job. It will give you a better idea of what you're after.

It may not hurt to first take your car to a shop and have them diagnose it just to make sure you know what the problem is before you start tearing into it. My biggest challenge is figuring out what the problem is. Once I get the problem figured out I can usually take care of it. That's where I wish I had more knowledge about automotive repair. The mechanics here have always helped me figure out the problem, which I find amazing, because they don't even have the vehicle in front of them.

Another thing you could do is record a video of the noise with your phone or something, upload it to youtube, and post the link here. It can be kind of hard to describe a noise, but if the guys can hear it with their own ears, they should definitely be able to let you know what the problem is.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

0xletsdothis : MG as we have called MarineGrunt has the DIY approaches down pat. Pay attention.

I have the question from the top as to what the heck is this noise to begin with? Seems you have been out searching around and think you have some engine noise involving valve train! So far that's quite a leap without knowing with some dang good surety that, that is where the noise is from.

How did you come to that conclusion? Are all other possible causes ruled out? Folks are here to assist with the fix but so far I'm not sure you need to tear into the engine at all!

Tell us what brought you to your conclusion. I see colder weather involved and the higher RPM can make it go away which sets off a red flag that you aren't done diagnosing what the problem is yet.

Just one test free to try: Take the serpentine belt off. Just to test run engine with it off and if noise is gone it isn't coming from engine mechanicals at all!

My concern is this could be the belt itself, anything it runs or even an component run by it loose, problem with a bracket or even some exhaust noise that absolutely can sound like real mechanical problems inside and are not.

Understand the low to no buck situation which is why many people come here. Please at least be sure of what the noise really is before you are up to your butt with something it might not be. There's only so much you can do with little or no $$ but that will depend on what the problem really is,


Response From 0xletsdothis

MG - Thanks again for the advice. I will definitately check out that magazine as I am looking to get better with fixing various issues myself that arise as I simply need to save as much money as I can.

Tom - Thanks for replying :) Some of your questions...

I'll answer your questions top down as you asked them,

1 - I have been googling around and everything kind of leads me back to the valves, perhaps that is the most common. I've been keyed into it alot more the past couple days and I appreciate your chain of thought because i've noticed some odditys that would possibly ellude to other issues. When I start it the past couple morning, I hear no click. Now my hearing is somewhat fried from gunfire and the sort so it might be that subtle. Anyways, the past few starts I hear no click, I hear no click while driving, but at the end of my trip to work which is about an hour, or my trip home from work, I will hear the click. Last night I tried to locate it by getting my ear closer and I couldnt really tell. It sort of sounded like maybe it was coming from either a low spot beneath the block, or torwards the back of the black, closest to the windshield. It's tough to describe, i'll habe to listen to it more tonight when I get home to see if I can pin point it. It does sound like it's coming from the general block area if that makes sense, but I guess there is a possibility it could be something else as it isn't very clear.

2 - Conclusion, just based on the vast ammount of clicking things i've read coming back to the valve system. That's what I suspect anyways, or did, heavily. It isn't consistent clicking i've noticed though so i'm not sure what to think now.

3 - Refer to 2, i've just begun noticing that it's really inconsistent. It seems that it USUALLY happens after the car has been driven for a distance, because the last three starts i've heard no click, but heard it when I got home. However there has been a time or two where I got home and didn't hear it. Again - Inconsistent.

4. I thought about that! My mind went to the belt right away when I first heard it thinking that would be the easiest fix as I have fixed a blown belt before. Life has trained me to assume the worst though, so that probably doesn't help my diagnosing issues haha. It sounds deep, under or in the back of the block, so if the clicking was coming low on the belt torwards the bottom of the car that might be something. I'll definitely look into trying that out. What all does the belt run on the car, will I cause any damage if I run it without the belt for too long?

5 - I appreciate your insights, I am definitely as MG also recommended doing plenty of research. I am not going to be getting balls deep in car parts with little clue to as what i'm trying to fix. That would be a disaster. I want to take an educated, targeted approach so I can fix whatever it is as quick as possible because I don't have alot of money to spend on the parts, and I need maximum uptime from my car :)

I will keep sharp tabs on my cars noises today, and the next few to see if I can establish any patterns or anything that might help in trying to figure out this noise, I do have a cell phone camera too for recording, so if I can get a good audio of it i'll definitely upload it!

Thanks so much for all the great insights, again, it's really appreciated.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

I have a busy day till much later. It can come and go so that alerts me. Real mechanical parts generally don't make noises that come and go like that but never say never on much of anything.

Belt is on my mind. Somewhat rare but am 100% certain from a new belt with no visual defects, correct # of grooves, correct spot on self tensioner - brand new that literally within 5-6 miles would have any tech say the engine had a serious problem. Wild unusual noises. Passed a spray with water test without change. No microscope examination of that belt showed a dang thing wrong.

Simply took it off and put spare on (I do this with cars for routine belt replacements is put the OK old one in under a spare tire or something for an emergency) and put that one on and voila! All was like new and was for till another new one arrived. No problems with that vehicle since. I was totally expecting a failed belt driven part at least but was only that exact belt and will never know why.

Another time on a road call a vehicle just made about 10 miles from getting a new belt I was not involved with the replacement of - just go the road call and belt was in shards. Different issue as that exact vehicle had a choice for one model year of a 6 or 7 groove belt and bad luck wrong one was put on.

Yours isn't new and sudden like that but they absolutely can shine pulleys and belt and make noises not on the list of anything common??


Response From MarineGrunt

Like Tom said, I would think if it were a valve it would do it all the time. Definitely make sure you know what the problem is before you do anything. It may be worth taking it a shop for diagnosis and then you do the work. My local Chevy dealership charges $45 to diagnose what's wrong. I've done that in the past and then fixed it myself. Doing that is much cheaper than throwing parts at it trying to figure out the problem. Call your local dealership and see what they charge. If their price is high find a reputable shop to diagnose it. Going this route will end up saving you in the long wrong.

There are some basic things you can check on your own first. Kind of like Tom's idea of running it without the belt. If your car does the clicking after it has been driven for awhile, wait until you get home, disconnect the belt, and then let it run. The alternator won't be hooked up to keep the battery charged so only run it for as long as you need to. The only problem here is if the noise only happens on occasion you may run it without the belt, think you found the problem, only for it to happen again. It's worth a shot though. If it still makes the noise with the belt off you know it has nothing to do with the belt or and of the accessories. If the belt hasn't been replaced for a long time you might as well pick up a new one and give it a try. It will probably cost you less than $20. You could spend more than that but it really just depends on the quality of the belt.

I'm sure you've done this but have you checked your oil level? If it's low it can cause a clicking.

If it ends up being a valve it shouldn't be too expensive of a project. I've never done a valve job on an overhead cam so not exactly sure what it all entails. I'm not sure if you need to take it to a machine shop to have the seats ground or not. Maybe Tom will elaborate on this. If not, I believe you'll mainly be out whatever new gaskets cost. With 130,00 miles you need to replace any gasket that you can get to while you're at it. There may be some other parts that will be worth replacing while you have everything apart that are normally a pain to get to. Doing this can often save you time and money in the future.

Keep us posted on what you figure out.

Response From 0xletsdothis Top Rated Answer

Thanks for the replies Tom and MG!

I will definitely try out that belt idea. Is it at all abnormal for the alternator to create a clicking sound? That's driven off the belt so that's one part that would increase clicking with higher RPMs. I did look at the belt while running and everything LOOKED to be spinning smoothly. I checked my oil levels not too long ago and they seemed alright. I should probably change it though as last time I went the cheater way and just dumped more oil in when it got low, probably some build up in there that's splashing around or something...

I did take a video of the click! I just gotta get it uploaded, it's on my cell phone and it needs wifi to upload it. I use my cell phone for internet so I need to find an open wifi point, or my buds or something. The last 4 times i've checked for the clicking noise it's always been after driving some distance. My commute to and from work is about an hour, and it's roughly 30-40 miles. Mostly highway. Care rarely clicks when I start it, but is clicking when I get home or to work. The clicks have seemed to get a little bit worse, during revving anyways. Maybe i'm just tuned into it 1000% more though so I might be imagining the severity. I blew a valve rod in my old 96 Dodge Intrepid years ago so I know the difference in noise and it's vastly different haha. I might just do that though, take it in and get an opinion because obviously there could be alot at play and you can only tell so much from my descriptions over the internet. I really appreciate the insights! Whatever it is, considering it's not something requiring an engine rebuild or something like that... I want to fix myself.

I just basically wanted to know if it was impossible or not, but I got some great advice which I will follow through with. Plenty of pictures, labeled baggies with screws! My thought is if I have to take the engine apart a bit. I will get the right tools, research the repair job through a magazine/book. One of my co-workers said there are books at libraries that have this information too. I will have to see what exactly he was talking about. Anyways, research the job, pictures after every part is pulled off, all the screws taken off in their own marked separate baggies. I was thinking of marking the screw holes themselves with some sort of chalk or marker. Is this reccomended? If I did take my engine apart I was thinking each part, I would put a number on the bolt/screw heads which would match the baggie which would match something I wrote on the engine. My concern is the marker/chalk interacting with the engine parts somehow and causing damage.

Anywho, my immediate course of action is going to be this - Take it easy on the car, probably gonna try to car pool for a week. Come pay day, get a nice new filter and nice oil, fill her the hell up. Run the tank dry, fill it up with a fresh clean tank with cleaning additives. Might as well rotate my back tires to the front while i'm at it haha. Then drive it for a while and see how it responds. If it keeps up for a few days or a week or so i'll likely take it in, because I doubt i'll be able to definitively be able to diagnose it myself with help from the internet. Then take action as need be! I will upload that video in the next couple days so you folks can take a listen. Kind worrying though haha, like i'm going to the doctor and he's about to tell me I have some gnarly disease. lol.

Thanks so much guys, much obliged!

Response From MarineGrunt

Marking on the engine or components with a marker or paint stick won't hurt anything. If you end up tearing into the engine I think it will be too hard to label everything. You won't always have the space to label and some bolts are so small you can't label them. There are times I will label something that I think may be easy to get confused on when it goes back together. I sometimes label wiring harnesses but normally they are all different so you can't really plug them into the wrong spot. One thing you definitely label are the plug wires to coil. You don't want to get those switched around! I found the baggie thing works good. Sometimes you may have, let's say, 3 bolts for one part. Two may be the same size and one may be longer. On the baggie I would write down the part that the bolts go to and something like "longer bolt bottom rear" that way I know where it goes. Even if you don't write everything down you can usually tell by looking at it where the longer bolt would go. There are times I will bag the bolts and tape them to the part that came out. You will pull bolts that don't have a part that comes out so you can't always do that. I think you'll be fine with baggies and pictures but you may find a system that works better for you. There's no wrong way as long as it works.

Every accessory is going to spin faster as the rpm's increase so you can't really narrow down to the alternator from that. The power steering pump, a/c compressor, tensioner pulley, etc all increase their rate of speed as you accelerate. They do have mechanic stethoscopes to help narrow down noise under the hood. Maybe one could help identify the noise. You can pick one up at an auto parts store. At least taking the belt off will let you know if it is one of the accessories, belt, or pulley and not the engine. If you take the belt off and the noise ceases, you know it's not an engine issue. If the noise does stop the next thing I would try is a new belt. If it's still there after the new belt then you'll know it's coming from one of the accessories or a pulley. that is as long as it stopped once you tried the test by removing the belt. I had a tensioner pulley going bad once and it made some sort of a ticking sound. Only cost me $12 to fix. Not saying that's your problem though but you never know. You might try and pull the belt off, spin each pulley by hand, and see if you can feel any type of resistance. You might be able to tell or might not but it's worth a try. I'd only try that if the belt test shows it's one of the pulleys or accessories causing it.

If you're not due for an oil change I would probably wait on changing it. I don't see new oil helping with the clicking. I'd figure out what is wrong first. No sense spending the money on oil only to possibly have to drain it if you end up tearing into the engine. You shouldn't have to drain the oil to do the valves though. I'm just thinking if you end up changing the oil pan gasket or whatever else while you're working on it. Might as well hit everything that needs to be done while you're working on it and especially the things that are easier to get to with other parts out of the way. If you're overdue for an oil change, and are going to be driving the car, by all means change it though. Is your car leaking or burning oil? You shouldn't have to add oil between oil changes unless it's going somewhere it's not suppose to be going. I'm not saying it doesn't happen and that it's a horrible thing but the oil has to be going somewhere. With 130k there could be some gaskets that could stand being replaced. If it does lose oil there is nothing wrong with just adding oil to top it off instead of changing it. You just want to make sure you change the oil when it's time. Regular oil changes is one of the most important things you can do to a car. The other fluids should also be checked and changed at certain intervals. Many people overlook fluids such as the transmission, power steering, cooling system, and brakes. Those should also be flushed on occasion. I use full synthetic on everything I can. Even with synthetic I still change the oil every 3000 miles. Even at 3000 miles full synthetic still has a new oil look to it. When I first used it around 8 years ago, and noticed how well it holds up, I've been using it ever since. I figure if the oil is that clean then it will probably keep the engine that much cleaner. Since you had to top off the oil, and it is going somewhere, did you ever run it too low? If so that might've caused some engine issues.

No matter what you find out this forum will be able to give you tips and advice in order to do the repair. I'm guessing that once you upload the clicking sound one of the mechanics here will be able to give you a pretty good idea of what the problem is. I'm telling you, these guys know their stuff. I don't think I've ever seen them not be able to figure out a problem. The only time someone's issue isn't resolved is because the person who came for help didn't do what they were advised to do or had no idea how to do the troubleshooting that was recommended. So, just listen to what they recommend to do. If you don't understand how to do the troubleshooting the recommend, just ask. They're good at explaining things.

Response From re-tired

I dont usally recommend additives ,but , seeing that your a newbe and broke to boot this cant hurt. There is a product called HYDRO-VALVE . IT has worked for me and friends numerous times . Just add a pint to your oil . At worst youve wasted a few bucks. I know I'll catch hell from the others but the stuff does work. GIve it a chance.

Response From 0xletsdothis

Thanks for the replies MG and re-tired!

I fear mechanical/engine issues. I was driving my car today and it just sounds real gnarly. Almost like a clattering. I've read all the worst stuff and am just doing lots of research on different things. Friday I will be doing all the easy check it things first with the oil and gas and added additives, the belt, checking the oil pan gasket and getting a fresh filter and all that. If none of that pans out (which I am going to assume it won't) I will take it to the next step.

In the mean time I am car pooling! Woo! Anyhow, quick question. I've been reading about the rod bearings. From what I gather this is what connects the piston to the crankshaft, correct? Plus if memory serves, if I remove the oil pan the rod bearings should be exposed, correct? If that's the case, and that's what's wrong (granted, it could be a HUNDRED things), I would imagine it wouldn't be to difficult to take off the oil pan, remove the bearings from the piston and replace the bearings? This is just a general knowledge question! Thanks guys :)

Response From re-tired

Thanks for the replies MG and re-tired!

I fear mechanical/engine issues. I was driving my car today and it just sounds real gnarly. Almost like a clattering. I've read all the worst stuff and am just doing lots of research on different things. Friday I will be doing all the easy check it things first with the oil and gas and added additives, the belt, checking the oil pan gasket and getting a fresh filter and all that. If none of that pans out (which I am going to assume it won't) I will take it to the next step.

In the mean time I am car pooling! Woo! Anyhow, quick question. I've been reading about the rod bearings. From what I gather this is what connects the piston to the crankshaft, correct? Plus if memory serves, if I remove the oil pan the rod bearings should be exposed, correct? If that's the case, and that's what's wrong (granted, it could be a HUNDRED things), I would imagine it wouldn't be to difficult to take off the oil pan, remove the bearings from the piston and replace the bearings? This is just a general knowledge question! Thanks guys :)

IF >>>>>The largest word in the english language. If there was no damage down below you could change bearings .The "bearings " are the size and thickness of a stick of gum ,an upper and lower half. By the time your hearing noise as loud as you are the bearing has gone bye bye.The connecting rod is now metal to metal with the crankshaft.At best you would have to remove crank and pistons .Replace rods, and if possible turn(machine) crank.If crank is beyond turning then its time for a crank kit.$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Response From 0xletsdothis

Welp, the car fires up fine and runs fine, just the clicking had gotten louder. So obviously i'm off it as much as possible now. The overall performance of the car has remained unhindered. No noticeable loss in power or anything to that effect. Just running a little rough with that increase in noise. I called up the local shop I generally have used and they don't do rebuilds. The do replacement and work on the upper like lifters and whatnot. I am hoping for the best, but really expecting the worst.

This crank kit, I am assuming it would include a shaft, main bearings and rod bearings? Anything else? Seals, gaskets of some kind? Isn't there bearings at the end of each side of the crank shaft at the edges of the block that keep the crankshaft from shifting side to side as well? That would probably be a bit too much work for me to be able to do. I am kind of limited to things I could do in my drive way haha. I don't have the ability to pull out my engine and work on it, plus at that level I think I would probably be getting the ole girl towed up to the shop for some TLC!

Thanks everyone!

Response From re-tired

Whoa, we need to stop throwing darts at this. You have described noise froma a lite tick to a Gnarly chattering.We responded with ideas from sticky valve additive to overhaul. You would do best to take to a professional shop and have a tech listen and do a few basic tests.

Response From 0xletsdothis

re-tired - I had a important call from work yesterday so I had to take my car in and the clicking was a bit worse and it almost sounded like a chatter when I came off of the pedal. It was weird. It was alot colder too.

MG - I basically don't have the resources to pull the engine. If it needs a rebuild that might be a red line for me. Basically any work I can do in frame I would like to do!

I will have more details Friday :) I am just going over all the different things i've researched and whatnot. Not committing to any certain course of action right now. Friday is the big day for getting to it and seeing what's what!


Response From MarineGrunt

That's just why I mentioned a used engine instead of rebuilding your current engine. That would be the easier than pulling and rebuilding. Heck, you might not even need an engine. If for some reason you do I was just thinking that you planned on doing the valves on your own. It might even be just as easy to pull the engine and put a new one in as it would be to do the valve job. An engine swap sure sounds intimidating but you may be surprised. I've heard of some people who had a cracked head or something and they'd rather just swap the engine than change out the head. With you originally talking about doing the valve you would've been right down to the heads. It was just a thought. I guess instead of talking about the "what ifs" we'll find out more Friday.

Hopefully it turns out being something simple.

Response From Tom Greenleaf

I'm totally in favor of whole OE used engines when and if you can know why it's available. Never say impossible but the fine detail of lower end engine plain will not be as good as original machining. The one time line boring of lower end new is not going to be duplicated. Close works but not the same ever again,


Response From MarineGrunt

If it is that far gone you might be better off picking up a used engine. The mechanics here could let you know if that would be the way to go. I guess the first step is getting it diagnosed though. Once you find out come back here and post the results.

You considered doing the valve job yourself if that ended up being the problem. If you end up having to put a new engine in, have you considered attempting that yourself? I'm not sure what the skill level difference is between a valve job and engine swap but that's something else I'm sure the mechanics on here will comment on. If you think you can look on craigslist for a cherry picker. I've seen them on there for around $50.

If it ends up being the valves I can get you some great pictures now. I just found out Sunday that I have a bad head gasket so pulled the heads Monday. I can snap pictures as I put it back together. The heads are at the machine shop now getting pressure checked and resurfaced so it will probably be this weekend before I get them back.